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spicewine
02-08-2005, 05:44 PM
PELLETS!!! HUMBUG!!!

Sorry, I'm a pureist----Man and Machine---Coal and wood

Sorry to all you Pellet Heads but why don't you just bring your electric oven from home? It's the same thing! You set the dial at 220 and go to bed.

Good for home----Not at competition!!

SHUT UP JAY ,YOU OPINIONATED BASTICH----- Sorry that was my alter ego chimming in.

drbbq
02-10-2005, 07:22 AM
Why would a guru be more acceptable to a purist than a pellet feed system?

and

Why would charcoal be more acceptable than pellets? Both are processed wood.

spicewine
02-10-2005, 09:03 AM
I only put the guru on one of my units because that's what my customer wanted on it. Personally he doesn't need it but if he's paying the bill what the hell.

I dont have a problem with the pellets themselves, it's the electricly driven delivery system that I have a problem with in a competition situation.

I do think that everyone has their preferences and who knows, someone, some day may sell me on the idea that I should have a pellet fed.

Stranger things have been known to happen.

Doc: I do respect your opinon

BBQchef33
02-10-2005, 09:20 AM
PELLETS!!! HUMBUG!!!

Sorry, I'm a pureist----Man and Machine---Coal and wood

Sorry to all you Pellet Heads but why don't you just bring your electric oven from home? It's the same thing! You set the dial at 220 and go to bed.

Good for home----Not at competition!!

SHUT UP JAY ,YOU OPINIONATED BASTICH----- Sorry that was my alter ego chimming in.

OHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh you got me started....

I agree 100%.. IMHO, pellet feeders AND any thermostatically controlled cooker shouldnt be in a competition, or at least there should be real competitions where they arent allowed. Your there to show what you can do, and how good you are, and fire managment is part of the art. Yeah, automatics feeders are great for the backyard, or the restaurant/catering businesses because it allows you to sleep and eliminates a major variable. But how does that show your skills? The variable can be eliminated somwhat with a WSM or Green egg also. Whats the difference between the pellet pushers and your kitchen oven? KCBS allows thermostatically controlled devices, but doesnt allow gassers, or electric rigs.. Once you introduce a thermostat, and feeder, etc.. then its irrelevant what the fuel source is.. Ya may as well just bring your kitchen oven and use a little liquid smoke.

BrooklynQ
02-10-2005, 09:38 AM
PELLETS!!! HUMBUG!!!

Sorry, I'm a pureist----Man and Machine---Coal and wood

Sorry to all you Pellet Heads but why don't you just bring your electric oven from home? It's the same thing! You set the dial at 220 and go to bed.

Good for home----Not at competition!!

SHUT UP JAY ,YOU OPINIONATED BASTICH----- Sorry that was my alter ego chimming in.

OHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh you got me started....

I agree 100%.. IMHO, pellet feeders AND any thermostatically controlled cooker shouldnt be in a competition, or at least there should be real competitions where they arent allowed. Your there to show what you can do, and how good you are, and fire managment is part of the art. Yeah, automatics feeders are great for the backyard, or the restaurant/catering businesses because it allows you to sleep and eliminates a major variable. But how does that show your skills? The variable can be eliminated somwhat with a WSM or Green egg also. Whats the difference between the pellet pushers and your kitchen oven? KCBS allows thermostatically controlled devices, but doesnt allow gassers, or electric rigs.. Once you introduce a thermostat, and feeder, etc.. then its irrelevant what the fuel source is.. Ya may as well just bring your kitchen oven and use a little liquid smoke.

Amen Pooh Bah!

But what do you know? You're only a Yankee! :twisted: :twisted:
(hey I resemble that remark)

chad
02-10-2005, 11:21 AM
Guess you guys don't like the team named "Pellet Envy" :D

As long as the associations allow assisted cooking (blowers, augers, auto dampers, etc) I have no problem with people using them.

I agree that it cheezes me off to be busting my butt all night while the Traeger or Fast Eddy/Cookshack owner sleeps - but I am willing to admit that most of that is ENVY that I can't afford one!

I tend to agree that electric assistance should not be allowed but like Ray/Dr.BBQ said - where do you draw the line. A couple of guys have gravity feed charcoal cookers that can go hours and hours without help - would that be allowed? Just asking - not trying to start anything.

I will admit that I'm looking real hard at an assisted cooker for catering. But, that is a different animal all together.

Since this is heating up would an admin please split this thread - maybe back where the pellet rant started?? This is good stuff but I would like it seperate from the cook off thread.

BigBelly
02-10-2005, 12:07 PM
I will admit that I'm looking real hard at an assisted cooker for catering. But, that is a different animal all together.

If I ever buy one that will be the only reason why, for catering, and for healthy sleeping patterns!

Fat Tommy's Quer's and I were having this very same discussion at the BBQ Bash in Bel Air this past summer. Just do have the team next to us (cannot remember their name) had one of the treagers, I believe it was the Texas BBQ 075, the $999.00 jobbie!

Well, after we fought, and fought with setting up Tommy's new tent and had the meat seasoned these guys were under the hood sort to speak trying to get their unit up and running. Keep in mind they had no other cookers, not even a WSM or simple Weber Grill.

After a few drinks from the Du Claw brewery truck and a few hours later here is the same team, still under the hood, and one more auger replacement later--no dice. They leave and come back around 8 pm. Under the light of the flashlight they replace the thermostat and manage to get some smoke going but still their unit is not fully functional.

They disappear around midnight that night and never returned. The next day there was their equipment still sitting there as we were all cleaned up and ready to go home. I wonder if they ever picked up their smoker!

Needless to say, if they only had a backup cooker, or better yet some charcoal, lump and wood they would of been A-OK!

I'll take the old school method any time!

The_Kapn
02-10-2005, 12:26 PM
This discussion reminds me of NASCAR.
They try to keep the "stock car" image (myth) alive by not allowing computer assisted suspension, braking, monitoring, etc.
OK.
But, "technology" drives the whole development and testing program.
The cars are loaded with "space age" materials, all created by technology.

NASCAR evolves every year, driven by marketing.
The "line" for permitted equipment keeps moving.

I have a feeling that "Competetive Que" will move the "line" as time goes on.
It may "go back to it's roots" and ban all "assisted" cooking.
Or, it may just say "Bring it on".

I am just noticing some ads for non-sanctioned events that allow gas, electric, and "whatever" heat source.
Haven't seen Nuclear listed yet, but probably coming :cry:
Large purses (some bigger than FBA purses) because large crowds draw large sponsors and big $.
They do not care about the traditions and finer points of competing--just $$.

I do not know and really don't have a firm opinion yet as a new competetor.

As DF said--we can't affort those rigs anyway.
May have to in the future.
JMHO.

TIM

kcquer
02-10-2005, 05:19 PM
Guess you guys don't like the team named "Pellet Envy"

No I don't, but that has nothing to do with my opinion of Trager and similar cookers.
I don't think they should be contest allowed either but the fact is they are. Some "purists" would say that foil is cheating, but its legal, winners use it and so does everyone else that wants to be competitve. Same can be said for pellet poopers. They're currently legal and if ya wanna have they type of control that the guy using a Fast Eddy has, you're gonna have to buy a FEC100.
Purity of method, unfortunately isn't scored in the tent.

jminion
02-10-2005, 05:45 PM
A purist is just a guy that has come to a point on the trail and then decides no one should go any futher cause he has found the Holy Grail according to him.
There are no true purist on this board I got to believe. The argument "I bust my ass all night while those guys just set a thermostat" is a weak one. Unless your willing to pile the rocks or dig the hole, chop down the trees with an stone axe, I suggest you need to get to the back of the purist line.
Just an opinion of course.

chad
02-10-2005, 06:31 PM
I agree that it cheezes me off to be busting my butt all night while the Traeger or Fast Eddy/Cookshack owner sleeps - but I am willing to admit that most of that is ENVY that I can't afford one!


Jim;

Please re-read my paragraph. I was admitting my envy! :D Truthfully, if I could afford an automated rig I'd compete with it. "Purist" is an old Native American word for "sure wish I had one of those" :mrgreen:

Now, for backyard - naw I'll stick with what I have. But for catering I definately want some automation. Competition falls in the middle - I don't think I'd take my Southern Pride to a cook off but I just might take my Spice or Stump's cooker with a Guru. Nothing against pellet machines but I'm not ready to go that route yet.

So, Jim, I agree. Please don't take my off-hand comment out of context.

spicewine
02-10-2005, 07:21 PM
"Purist" is an old Native American word for "sure wish I had one of those"


Then I take it back. If this is true then I'm no Purest.

Actually when it comes down to it I really don't care. Life's too short but why pass up the opportunity to stir up a good controversy

BBQchef33
02-10-2005, 07:22 PM
i dont think its a matter of purity. I think its a matter of competing and showing what you can do on a level playing field. I dont think it and unfair advantage because alot of 1st place trophies came from the WSM that whooped the FE100. So its not an advantage, and believe me, i do not envy and FE100, and dont wish I had one.. If I ever decide to cater, then i may consider getting one. For me, BBQ is a hobby and a passion, not a job. I want toys, not tools. Poopers dont guarentee a win, they guarentee a nap.

IMO, Its just a matter of sportsmanship. We are competing, its a sport so show me what ya got.. shut off the thermostat, unplug the hopper and burn sticks. Thats a level playing field, and I am not going to lower :wink: the playing field by going out and getting a trager just to compete against the pellet poopers. Having the FE100 next to the WSM or a stick burner is like showing up at a stock race with a funny car. Best part is when moms mustang(WSM) takes first place, a BYC takes second and the Funny car(FE100) is somewhere else in top 10. Hey, but the cook got a good nights sleep. 8)

tommykendall
02-10-2005, 07:42 PM
i dont think its a matter of purity. I think its a matter of competing and showing what you can do on a level playing field


That sums it up IMO. Like Mary said before - if a major factor in the quality of your product is a function of your fire control, I don't believe anything that can be used to set a temperature and forget it should be allowed for competition. Such units have great uses I'm sure

jminion
02-10-2005, 07:55 PM
David
Nothing personel taken I've heard the it's not fair many times. There are folks that believe that WSMs are not fair because you don't have to play with the fire all night.
Spice
Controversy is a wonderful thing.
Phil
If a level playing field is really the name of the game, then why not go to you can't use your pit, you have to use someone elses. Draw your pit out of a hat and let see if your a pit master.

Kcbs rule are simply as long as your fuel supply is charcoal or wood your legal, that includes pellets.
Jim

tommykendall
02-10-2005, 08:01 PM
Phil
If a level playing field is really the name of the game, then why not go to you can't use your pit, you to use someone elses. Draw your pit out of a hat and let see if your a pit master.


I like that idea

chad
02-10-2005, 09:40 PM
While exchanging pits would be interesting: to truly be a purist how about digging a hole in the ground, lining it with rocks, burning down whole logs to a coal bed and cooking the meat on sticks stuck in the ground or on lattice made of green wood or other variations of "true" barbecue, barbeque, barbacoa, etc. :mrgreen:

drbbq
02-10-2005, 09:49 PM
OK, let's make it a real test. None of those new fangled things that control the fire. I think you call them air vents. Matter of fact, let's outlaw the cheater boxes we call cookers.
You want to claim purity? Dig a hole in the ground and let's cook.

Like Minion said, guys want progress to stop where they happen to be standing.

Oh yeah, no more of that high tech fuel called charcoal either.

chad
02-10-2005, 09:53 PM
Florida echo mod! :D

tommykendall
02-10-2005, 10:40 PM
how about digging a hole in the ground, lining it with rocks, burning down whole logs to a coal bed and cooking the meat on sticks stuck in the ground or on lattice made of green wood or other variations


Ok Chad - you do that in the woods behind Mary's place in June. I'll stick with the BYC and/or the new MOAB. :D

BBQchef33
02-10-2005, 10:55 PM
Phil
If a level playing field is really the name of the game, then why not go to you can't use your pit, you have to use someone elses. Draw your pit out of a hat and let see if your a pit master.


That would be cool... and I'd be up for it anytime..... Like i said, its to see what your made of and fire managment is such an integral part of BBQ that you should be judged on those abilities. The elimination of a variable is one thing, but eliminating that variable gives the judges an inaccurate reflection of the cooks ability. No matter how great a chef your are, if you cannot manage a pit, you cannot produce good bbq and that should be taken into consideration when handing someone the title of Grand Champion. We are talking the world of competition, not backyard cooking, or family gatherings or catering. But controling a pit to produce a product in a targeted 2 hour window.

What skill does it take to work something thats set and forget? Heres and interesting scenario. Take someone who has be poopin pellets for the last 10 years, never cooked in a steel offset cooker(or stick burner of some type) and stick them in front of a Lang or Backyard Chef and see what they produce in a mock 24 hour contest. But take someone who has been burning sticks all those years and stick them in front of a pellet pit. He will set the thermostat and then go to the bar for 8 hours. The stick burning cook has proven abilities, that have now been taken out of the equation and and at the touch of a button, the result was a pit of constant temps. Chances are his product will be about the same as if he was on his own pit. But how do you think a long time pellet pooper will fend in front of a pit filled with lump, logs and a damper.... and no thermostat. He's gotta work that pit on his own.. Do you think his product will be as good as it was in his pellet cooker.. a.k.a oven.


Kcbs rule are simply as long as your fuel supply is charcoal or wood your legal, that includes pellets.
Jim

We arent questioning KCBS rules. We all live by them. And we all know its the cook, not the cooker. My issue is NOT with the pellets at all.. its with the thermostat and fan. If someone wants to cook with a gravity fed pellet cooker with no fan and thermostat where he has to tend the pit.. I'd be ok with that... This is just discussion on the differing opinions of the two techniques.. But i'll still be going to the state ch in March with my BYC and a couple WSM.

racer_81
02-10-2005, 10:57 PM
Did someone say the magic MOAB word?

:-)

jminion
02-10-2005, 11:06 PM
Phil
The BBQ Guru must drive you nuts.

There is the no garnish, it's a meat contest group.
There is it's fire tending group.

My feelings are is it's about producing the best BBQ with in the rules and if you can use a pellet cooker to that it's fine with me. If winning was as simple as using a pellet cooker there would be even more of them out there. I don't really care if a team was to use gas or electricity cause it is about the product. As a Rep or a judge I have promised to do my job within the rules and as I cook it is my job to put together the best techniques to make it happen. I choose the cookers I use because they work for me. This last season I cooked on cermanics, WSMs.a Klose and FE100, I enjoyed cooking on the pellet cooker as much as any of the others.

The same thing when it comes for garnish when you see how some teams use it, they would be better off choosing not to.

chad
02-11-2005, 05:41 AM
If no fans, no electicity, no thermostats -- guess that means no Nu-Temps, Mavericks, Pyrex, etc. thermometers either.

Damn, being a purist in BBQ is almost as hard as being a purist in animal rights, vegans, etc. :D

This is all a RULES thing. If you don't like one associations allowable equipment find one you do like. This whole thread spun off a comment I made about a Fast Eddy cooker spitting some pellets out. It wasn't intended to get a discourse on how much anyone hates "whatever".

Cook the way you like. Remember too that this is the Competition Forum and the discussion is often not about what we personally like to do or cook with - it's about the results that go to the judge.

Lighten up guys - nobody is trying to make you cook with pellets, wafers, gas, etc. If you want to use paper logs and Kraft sauce on your BBQ lamb - go for it! :twisted:

spicewine
02-11-2005, 08:05 AM
The same thing when it comes for garnish when you see how some teams use it, they would be better off choosing not to.


I've seen some that could win in the Salad Bar Category

Aebs
02-11-2005, 09:50 AM
While exchanging pits would be interesting: to truly be a purist how about digging a hole in the ground, lining it with rocks, burning down whole logs to a coal bed and cooking the meat on sticks stuck in the ground or on lattice made of green wood or other variations of "true" barbecue, barbeque, barbacoa, etc. :mrgreen:

I've done this with 70-80 lb whole pigs a few times. Wrapped the beast in foil and burlap, lowered into the whole Friday night on a sheet of expanded steel with chains, buried it, and pulled it back out Saturday afternoon. Real good, real tender, real easy. Talk about your unmonitored cooking.

jt
02-11-2005, 10:13 AM
lowered into the whole Friday night
as opposed to a partial Friday night

jt
02-11-2005, 10:19 AM
LOL

Yours is going out as soon as I can get to FedX

Jorge
02-11-2005, 12:42 PM
Lighten up guys - nobody is trying to make you cook with pellets, wafers, gas, etc. If you want to use paper logs and Kraft sauce on your BBQ lamb - go for it! :twisted:

Ignore him and keep going. I've got plenty of beer and popcorn :twisted:

Heath
02-11-2005, 05:28 PM
I can see the future,

INTRODUCING Your latest contestants in.... "IRON PIT CHEF"

Each contestant will have a variety of pits and/or cooking methods and meats provided and will have to produce better Q' than his competition. The one who wins the most times aver the next 5 days will be titled "IRON CHEF PIT MASTER"

music, music, dancing girls....

Neil
02-11-2005, 07:57 PM
What counts is that you have a good time and turn out some damn tastey Q . IMO!

BBQchef33
02-12-2005, 02:27 AM
If no fans, no electicity, no thermostats -- guess that means no Nu-Temps, Mavericks, Pyrex, etc. thermometers either.

Damn, being a purist in BBQ is almost as hard as being a purist in animal rights, vegans, etc. :D

This is all a RULES thing. If you don't like one associations allowable equipment find one you do like. This whole thread spun off a comment I made about a Fast Eddy cooker spitting some pellets out. It wasn't intended to get a discourse on how much anyone hates "whatever".

Cook the way you like. Remember too that this is the Competition Forum and the discussion is often not about what we personally like to do or cook with - it's about the results that go to the judge.

Lighten up guys - nobody is trying to make you cook with pellets, wafers, gas, etc. If you want to use paper logs and Kraft sauce on your BBQ lamb - go for it! :twisted:


Yeah right.. lets not use thermometers. Oh stop reachin.

Can we NOT discuss this as a rules thing.. Its an opinion thread on 2 schools of thought. Thats all. We all know the KCBS rules.. and I am not complainin or trying to change them, although I'd like to see [additional] contest with different formats, such as all wood only.. or switching pits..


But I do like hearing the different perspectives. This is not a "my way or the highway forum, never was."
So lets continue with civil adult discussion.

Pellet poppers are poopieheads.

8)

Neil
02-12-2005, 05:38 AM
So lets continue with civil adult discussion.

Pellet poppers are poopieheads.



Now that's more like it. I was beginning to feel like a kid whose parents were arguing.

drbbq
02-12-2005, 10:33 AM
I think it's actually three schools of thought.
Those that want to use any means available, those that want to use no technology at all, and those that want to stop progress where they are standing.
Steel pits with air flow restriction to control temp are the half way guys. Charcoal users too.

I cooked in the World Barbecue Association Championship in Jamaica year before last and we all got two 55 gallon drums with one undersized stack and one primative vent. A WSM or a Klose is miles ahead of that in technology.

BTW I was able to cook that way. Got third in ribs and did well overall.

parrothead
02-12-2005, 11:40 AM
I cooked in the World Barbecue Association Championship in Jamaica year before last and we all got two 55 gallon drums with one undersized stack and one primative vent.

That sounds fun. Did you know what you would be using before you got there, or was it a surprise?

drbbq
02-12-2005, 12:28 PM
We knew.
For the World Championship you could bring a different grill, but hardly anyone did. The next day was the Jamaican Championship and we had to use the drums. That was the rule. We also had to use the meat they gave us. The World Championship in Jamaica was a one time thing, it moves around, but the Jamaican Championship is an annual event at the Sunset Beach Resort.

willkat98
02-12-2005, 03:05 PM
We knew.
For the World Championship you could bring a different grill, but hardly anyone did. The next day was the Jamaican Championship and we had to use the drums. That was the rule. We also had to use the meat they gave us. The World Championship in Jamaica was a one time thing, it moves around, but the Jamaican Championship is an annual event at the Sunset Beach Resort.

Now thats pretty cool. And third in Ribs. You can't get a more level playing field. Thats my kinda competition

Great job Doc.

drbbq
02-12-2005, 03:55 PM
Thanks, my point is just because a guy now uses a pellet cooker doesn't mean he always did, and it doesn't mean he can't control a fire.

Fast Eddy, the guy who created the FE100 is a firefighter, welder and a great cook. He knows more about how a barbecue fire works than probably anyone I know. I've seen him cook a great hog on a Lang.

The_Kapn
02-12-2005, 04:04 PM
Dr Ray,

Thanks for all your input--very enlightening!
You have an impressive arsenal of cookers :mrgreen:

Would you care to comment on which of the several styles you have that produce the most consistant and award winning product?

That is the root of this thread.
We would love to know what a seasoned Champion prefers :lol:

Thanks,

TIM

tommykendall
02-12-2005, 04:10 PM
#600. Well done Tim. Thanks for your contributions.

The_Kapn
02-12-2005, 04:13 PM
#600. Well done Tim. Thanks for your contributions.
Shucks--never noticed :oops:

I imagine that at least 2 or 3 of them were "quaility" and "on topic".
Well, maybe back in Cattle Call anyway :lol:
TIM

willkat98
02-12-2005, 08:56 PM
Thanks, my point is just because a guy now uses a pellet cooker doesn't mean he always did, and it doesn't mean he can't control a fire.

Fast Eddy, the guy who created the FE100 is a firefighter, welder and a great cook. He knows more about how a barbecue fire works than probably anyone I know. I've seen him cook a great hog on a Lang.

Doc, I couldnt agree with you more.

I started about 5 or 6 years ago on a El Cheapo Brinkman.

I use to strive to keep the heat in the "Ideal" range. Remember that Brinkman thermometer?

I love the WSM. Set it and forget it, as Ron Popeil would say.

So a pellet cooker, that doesnt need 24/7 monitoring, is interesting to me.

I have all kinds of cookers, depending on how much I want to farkwith them. I would never say that I am good enough to compete, but I would say that even with a $30 ECB, I could place in a competition, Only thing is, I would be up all night farking with temps every 10 minutes.

In competition, I think consistency is the thing, which I assunme pellet cooking gives. So thats one less variable to fark with

Please, please keep us posted during the 2005 season as to how the cooking is going. I know its your busy time, but we love hearing about whats going on

drbbq
02-12-2005, 09:38 PM
For years I cooked on a big Jedmaster. I loved it. Then for ease of use in business I swtched to an FE100 clone. I loved it. Then for different business purposes (read$$$) I switched to Big Green Eggs, and now I love them. I also now use a real FEC100.

The common features of all these cookers are the heat source is directly under the meat. They all have a deflector but no water pan. They are all well insulated and they are all easily kept on temp. The differences are the size and fuel.
I like the size of the big jed, and the room to cook everything in one cooker with extras. It used briquettes with wood chunks. Cleanup sucked.

The pellet cooker is a no brainer to keep on temp, and it's about impossible to oversmoke anything. It's decent sized and cleanup is pretty simple. The downside is it's mechanical and has a rare breakdown. You just need to learn how to fix it in the field. It's not brain surgery.

The eggs run on lump with wood chips or chunks. They cook great but you need a few of them. The good news is you can run them at diferent temps for different needs. They have to be handled carefully but it's not a big deal.

I really like all of these cookers, and wouldn't mind using any of them any time. The combination of a few eggs and an FE is pretty hard to beat.

I don't much care for offsets. First off, it just doesn't make any sense to me to put the fire on the side. Heat rises.
Using all wood can easily result in oversmoked food and that doesn't win much. The good cooks I know that use wood wrap their food early and often.

My two cents as requested.

Wayne
02-12-2005, 09:38 PM
BBQ is all about flavor and taste. It isn't really about how you cook it. I like to cook with wood and charcoal in an offset fire box type of BBQ pit. But that's just me. I also like to eat other peoples BBQ, but I rarely get too critical about the way they cook it. There are as many ways to cook BBQ as there are sauces and rubs. When it is done well it tastes good and that is all that matters. I have two offset pits and an old Weber kettle, but if I had the money I would also have a Klose trailer, a Big Green Egg or Kamado, and one of those pellet machines that Al Roper used on his BBQ show. heck, I might even have one of those electric things for the kitchen so I can slow smoke cheese and such.

It's all about the taste.

tommykendall
02-12-2005, 09:43 PM
Then for different business purposes (read$$$) I switched to Big Green Eggs, and now I love them. I also now use a real FEC100.

The common features of all these cookers are the heat source is directly under the meat. They all have a deflector but no water pan.


My biggest cooking challenge was on the Green Egg. This guy bought one (with the Guru add-on) against my recommendation of the WSM. ONly reason I recommended the WSM over the egg was because I had to teach the guy how to use it. Started to get the hang of it toward the end of the cook. What a struggle it was but I did quickly see what a great cooker it can be.

drbbq
02-13-2005, 06:54 AM
Tommy,
What problems were you having?
Did he have the plate setter? It's the deflector for indirect cooking. It's an option but you gotta have it.
I have never used a Guru. I get paid by BGE so I can't justify using an aftermarket tool that "makes it work better". But I also don't see a need for it. I've had good success cooking all four contest catagories on the egg and without a guru. IMO it works just fine on it's own.

jt
02-14-2005, 07:46 AM
Some great info here. Thanks Doc for sharing.

homebbq
02-21-2005, 09:12 PM
You know, I envy those that use the pellet cookers. They are always fresh Saturday morning, and I am trying to get a third or fourth wind.

I have the same opinion as Jim, I really don't care what they use, if they want to use gas, electric, doesn't bother me. In the end, the bbq has to be good enough to win.

WalterSC
11-08-2006, 07:30 AM
Well I am working on having 2 double 55 gallon drum smokers / with side fireboxes made for competing , yea I would love to have one of those BIG towable pits but it aint gonna happen anytime soon. It aint fancy but they work for me as it has been said time and time again it aint the cooker its the cook . I say if it aint broke why fix it , work with what you like . Me I like sitting there feeding the smokers kingsford and oak wood , yea I use a digital thermometer so what , never had any complaints so far when I host a backyard Q . Bout time I threw my hat into competing and had some fun. Wish me luck brethren. First smoker is being built as we speak and I got a friend who can get the stainless steel drums free for me cant beat that deal !!!

And just for the record no I would not want one of those set it and forget it grills , I would rather take my time and make great Q low and slow!! Too much hi tech ruins the fun of doing Q at least for me , but if it helps someone elese I say go for it and good Qing!!

drbbq
11-08-2006, 10:39 AM
Well come on with your bad self. Send in some entry fee money and get cooking. The season is just starting here in Florida.

WalterSC
11-08-2006, 10:58 AM
Hey I got friends that live in Lakeland FL they have been trying for a year to get me down to compete in the cookoff they have there , once the grills are done ya never can tell were I might show up , might have to borrow a pick up truck to haul it all down. Might go as a spectator or try to find a team the would like some help just so I can get used to the KCBS styles of competiton. Need to learn the the green stuff that they put in with the food "garnish" we dont do that in SCBA contest we just judge the meat as turned in. Oh yea my birthday is the 22nd of November got my wife hunting your BBQ books to add to my collection. Gonna hit the 47 year old mark and am going back to what I know best , BBQ!!!!

drbbq
11-08-2006, 11:37 AM
Well don't let the garnish scare you off. If your BBQ is good it won't hurt you. The books should be any bookstore. Hope you like them.

JKH
11-08-2006, 12:24 PM
I don't much care for offsets. First off, it just doesn't make any sense to me to put the fire on the side. Heat rises.
Using all wood can easily result in oversmoked food and that doesn't win much. The good cooks I know that use wood wrap their food early and often.

My two cents as requested.

How can an offset not make sense? Ya add preheated,seasoned sticks to the side without opening the cooking chamber,if your cooker is made of thick steel then the temperature stays constant between fuel additions and burns cleanly.What doesn't make sense is to have the fire underneath burning stinky unlit charcoal,with out the option of using wood as a main fuel.
Yup offsets burning wood easily oversmoke food and don't win much!...lol
Oh i had me some 075 BBQ and it was quite vile!

TexasGuppie
11-08-2006, 02:33 PM
Just break it down into categories: Stickburner against stickburner, pellet against pellet, electric against electric, ez-bake oven against ez-bake oven, etc., etc.

But that being said, I'm not a competitor and all of these suggestions would probably just mess things up that don't really need messin' up.

Ken

chad
11-08-2006, 02:51 PM
I agree with DrBBQ about offsets...and I use one. They are inefficient compared to other cookers...there are lots of barrel (and other shape cookers) that have fire in the bottom/back or ends of the cooking chamber and this results in less fuel use - sticks, charcoal, etc.

That being said, if stick burners went to a burn barrel and using coals it would result in a less smokey environment (in the cooker)...lots of work, though there are some teams that bring their burn barrel and do just that.

I've gotten way over the issue of the type of cooker used in competitions. It comes down to how well the cook can use their cooker. Granted, the FEC, BGE, WSM, guys "work" less but they still have to hit the window for the "perfect" meat.

One item I appreciate about my Kingfisher Gator is that I can heat two cook chambers from the firebox -- not like a BYC with all the heat loss in the main horizontal chamber, but "directly" from the firebox into each cooking space...my rotisserie maximizes my cooking space compared to having a flat grate in that space. It is, however, still inefficient in the use of the rising heat - but is more efficient than having two fires, one in each cooking chamber.

Competition cooking is to "traditional" bbq (and most backyard chefs) what NHRA/NASCAR are to the average driver. It looks like it's the "same car" but it's not!

The differences between competition bbq and traditional (original?) bbq are huge...for a discourse on traditional bbq and some strong arguments for competition bbq NOT being bbq -- go to www.bobinga.com (http://www.bobinga.com) or http://www.sptsb.com/. These guys are HARD CORE!!

I met Bob along with Ginger, Big Jim, and Danny. They are great people...and they are more interested in competition than before, but they are traditionalist -- they raised and butchered the hogs they and we cooked at Douglas.

So, I'm not trying to get a controversy going, but it's interesting to get the arguments from all sides before talking ugly about each other!!

drbbq
11-08-2006, 03:09 PM
How can an offset not make sense? Ya add preheated,seasoned sticks to the side without opening the cooking chamber,if your cooker is made of thick steel then the temperature stays constant between fuel additions and burns cleanly.What doesn't make sense is to have the fire underneath burning stinky unlit charcoal,with out the option of using wood as a main fuel.
Yup offsets burning wood easily oversmoke food and don't win much!...lol
Oh i had me some 075 BBQ and it was quite vile!

Heat rises, it doesn't go sideways.

JKH
11-08-2006, 03:26 PM
[QUOTE=chad]I agree with DrBBQ about offsets...and I use one. They are inefficient compared to other cookers...there are lots of barrel (and other shape cookers) that have fire in the bottom/back or ends of the cooking chamber and this results in less fuel use - sticks, charcoal, etc.

Well i use the tinniest sticks to keep my offset burning cleanly, and compared to any cooker out there it costs less to cook on in fuel prices.
15$ a bag of charcoal...lol i don't think so.

JKH
11-08-2006, 03:30 PM
Heat rises, it doesn't go sideways.

If you take out the platesetter.

Actually my heat rises also,get's pushed against the baffle and rises.
Nothing makes more sense to me than an offset.

HoDeDo
11-08-2006, 03:42 PM
The Kingfishers Utilize the heat going up as well... by having a water jacket over the top of the firebox to allow steam into the cooking chamber for moisture. But have to agree with Ray and Dave - they are inefficent by comparison to the others noted like the BGE. Having had the luxury of cooking on lots of cookers this season, I think you have to have the right skills to do well with any of them. Dave - do you use your water jacket at all?

chad
11-08-2006, 03:50 PM
Dave - do you use your water jacket at all?

I usually fill the water tank...to protect the upper part of the firebox. Thursday I had it full...I didn't bother to refill when I fired off Friday for the second pig/brisket/chicken.

From a cooking standpoint it seems to make little difference...but, like I said I use it most of the time.

I wish the rotisserie side had a damper between it and the firebox...I know the rotisserie is the primary cooker, but there are times I've switched over to the "grill" side and I just shut the stack...that forces the draft over but it would be nice to be able to just shut it down.

By the way, I had little problem keeping temps between 225-250 over two full days of cooking (two events)...I had the firebox intakes shut down about 75% on each side of the firebox. Fire control was not an issue. I did use up about three wheel barrow full of oak, about 1/2 a wheel barrow of pecan, and two bags of Kingsford - the Kingsford is used to light off the cooker - two starts, two bags!:-D

I have to keep remembering when I used a WSM and small offsets with charcoal and small chunks or tiny splits! I'm not a stick burner fanatic, but I like my Kingfisher and am in the market for a dedicated hog cooker - that is flexible enough to do my other products, too. I may wind up with something like the JOS shoulder cooker or small hog cooker...Stump's was well represented at Douglas with both the large and small versions of his hog cooker along with several teams using his GF models. The insulation is a big plus with fuel economy and when fighting wind and cool temperatures.

JKH
11-08-2006, 03:53 PM
Of course steel is not as efficient as ceramics,i would love to have a 20x48"
offset ceramic and find out just how much more efficient the ceramics really are.Wonder if they could be used to burn wood? i know my 1/2"+ steel firebox when warmed up and cooking,greatly helps with the combustion of the next preheated stick to light and burn cleanly.

chad
11-08-2006, 04:06 PM
,i would love to have a 20x48"
offset ceramic and find out just how much more efficient the ceramics really are.Wonder if they could be used to burn wood?

Build a block/stone/brick (whatever) pit and go for it! They are basically "ceramic" and will build quite a heat load...most of them are fed from a burn area - i.e the wood is burned to coals an shoveled into the chamber (offset or underneath).

Sawdustguy
11-08-2006, 04:45 PM
Build a block/stone/brick (whatever) pit and go for it! They are basically "ceramic" and will build quite a heat load...most of them are fed from a burn area - i.e the wood is burned to coals an shoveled into the chamber (offset or underneath).


Que has been cooked like that for decades all over the south. Worked well back then, still works well today. It stood the test of time.

JKH
11-08-2006, 06:34 PM
Build a block/stone/brick (whatever) pit and go for it! They are basically "ceramic" and will build quite a heat load...most of them are fed from a burn area - i.e the wood is burned to coals an shoveled into the chamber (offset or underneath).

Well that won't tell me much about a ceramics efficiency by burning wood,no ceramics burn wood..
These cookers are popular in Texas BBQ establishments,i seen a BBQ show showing Smitty's,,Kreuz BBQ looked like no preburning wood though,just placing oak on top of ashes by the entrance to the meat.

HoDeDo
11-08-2006, 06:40 PM
Just to give you an idea.... The Kingfisher I use in comps has an oven over the firebox. It is 3 shelf and will hold 3 full steam trays. That oven typically runs 100 degrees hotter than my smoking chamber --- so the offset costs my efficiency greatly - Could get by with less fuel if the cooking chamber was over the coals instead of next to them. I think Ray's point about efficency of offsets has alot to do with the efficency debate. Obviously then anything that aids insulation is icing on the cake.

chad
11-08-2006, 06:48 PM
Just to give you an idea.... The Kingfisher I use in comps has an oven over the firebox. It is 3 shelf and will hold 3 full steam trays. That oven typically runs 100 degrees hotter than my smoking chamber --- so the offset costs my efficiency greatly - Could get by with less fuel if the cooking chamber was over the coals instead of next to them. I think Ray's point about efficency of offsets has alot to do with the efficency debate. Obviously then anything that aids insulation is icing on the cake.

Right on target! I don't have the oven -- just the water tank and then the work surface (expanded steel). I do insulate the rotisserie if it's cool with a couple of old thrift shop blankets - even that makes a big difference.

JKH
11-08-2006, 06:48 PM
Of course if your cooking chamber was over the coals you would be more efficient,but i'm talking the main reason for having a thick offset in the first place,,,to burn wood,makes no sense at all to buy a cooker with an offset firebox and use charcoal.I seen an upright cooker with a side firebox,,now whoever sees that thinks it'd be more efficient if it was under the upright like say a Stumps,,if it was right underneath then you couldn't burn wood.

chad
11-08-2006, 06:54 PM
Well that won't tell me much about a ceramics efficiency by burning wood,no ceramics burn wood..
These cookers are popular in Texas BBQ establishments,i seen a BBQ show showing Smitty's,,Kreuz BBQ looked like no preburning wood though,just placing oak on top of ashes by the entrance to the meat.

Actually, that tells you tons about the efficiency..you don't need flames to maintain the temps.

Most brick/block pits I saw in Texas and around here are fed coals. Some open pits, especially in Texas, use burning wood - but they are usually built with the cook grate many, many inches (about 2 feet) above the coal bed. They may burn the wood to coals "by the entrance to the meat" but the main cooking is going on over coals.

Hey, opinions on methods are like anuses...we all have 'em. You buy or build what YOU want -- I don't sweat what other folks use anymore - I might be envious, though!

The_Kapn
11-08-2006, 06:58 PM
"Hey, opinions on methods are like anuses...we all have 'em. You buy or build what YOU want -- I don't sweat what other folks use anymore - I might be envious, though!"

Tell y'all what--If Jamie Geer made a Whole Hog Cooker, Chad would be in debt BIG TIME! :lol:

TIM

chad
11-08-2006, 07:04 PM
"Hey, opinions on methods are like anuses...we all have 'em. You buy or build what YOU want -- I don't sweat what other folks use anymore - I might be envious, though!"

Tell y'all what--If Jamie Geer made a Whole Hog Cooker, Chad would be in debt BIG TIME! :lol:

TIM

Nope! I'd feel compeled to CLEAN it more often. I don't want a cooker I have to Turtle Wax.:shock: (I'm kidding, sort of!) They sure are pretty!

I'm thinking a Jack's Old South Signature in black and stainless!! And then some spiffy button down shirts for the awards ceremonies!:mrgreen: Heck, if we walked more often we could afford team shirts!!:rolleyes:

JKH
11-08-2006, 07:11 PM
Anybody know anything about the Jamie Geer pits? Seems i can't find out any information on them,once i asked and someone said it was a klose with a 10k paint job.

HoDeDo
11-08-2006, 07:14 PM
I just love this Chit..... My bride knows if I win the lottery... I'd have an 40x60 bldg just to hold all the cookin rigs I'd own. Kinda like Jay Leno's garage..... oh wait, that would be the building next to it ;o)

The_Kapn
11-08-2006, 07:15 PM
Anybody know anything about the Jamie Geer pits? Seems i can't find out any information on them,once i asked and someone said it was a klose with a 10k paint job.

"Au Contraire" (or how ever you spell that).
Rod (KCPellethead) has one.
I saw his at Ft Rucker.
Gorgeous, as are the few others around!
Very limited production.

True works of art.

Hang on and he will be around, I am suire.

TIM

chad
11-08-2006, 07:18 PM
Anybody know anything about the Jamie Geer pits? Seems i can't find out any information on them,once i asked and someone said it was a klose with a 10k paint job.

Man were you told wrong! Jamie's pits are indeed works of art...Trigg, Rod, and lots of others use them regularly. Tight tolerances, great paint, even the insides of the storage areas are painted. Cast iron firebox doors...yeah, lot's of pretty things - but they are build first and foremost to cook.

Don't let "sour grapes" "friends" steer you wrong. Also, it's not real "politic" to slam anyone's cooker (user or manufacturer) on this forum. If you haven't seen one please be careful about passing along negative "information".

butts
11-08-2006, 07:38 PM
Everyone should own one of each...

I just love this Chit..... My bride knows if I win the lottery... I'd have an 40x60 bldg just to hold all the cookin rigs I'd own. Kinda like Jay Leno's garage..... oh wait, that would be the building next to it ;o)

I'm just happy to know that there are others who are as sick as I am!

HoDeDo
11-08-2006, 07:47 PM
Smokers Wild (Don and Sharon Will) also have a georgous Geer. They are down in Florida right now doing the Key Largo, and Plant city contests... So look for the Paola, KS tags and sexy pit!!

JKH
11-08-2006, 07:53 PM
The 10k comment i made up,,figured i would get some info,,being nice never works,,i know,i been asking about the Geer pits for over a year,never learned anything.seen one on tv and i swear i seen my reflection in it.Gorgeous they are.And plenty of BBQ W Championships so it ain't just a paint job.

chad
11-08-2006, 08:01 PM
The 10k comment i made up,,figured i would get some info,,being nice never works,,i know,i been asking about the Geer pits for over a year,never learned anything.seen one on tv and i swear i seen my reflection in it.Gorgeous they are.And plenty of BBQ W Championships so it ain't just a paint job.

All you had to do was ask! Lot's of us have had our tails whipped by Trigg and Ron and (fill in a name) using Jamie's cookers. I'll never be able to afford on, but then I can't afford an Escalade to pull a pit either.:-D

JKH
11-08-2006, 08:17 PM
Guess i'll never be able to afford one either,i'd pay a grand to have a looksee inside one of his fireboxes though,so i guess we're talking 30k-1.2m somewhere in that price?

The_Kapn
11-08-2006, 08:23 PM
Guess i'll never be able to afford one either,i'd pay a grand to have a looksee inside one of his fireboxes though,so i guess we're talking 30k-1.2m somewhere in that price?

Who knows?
Fine art is priceless :lol:

TIM

JKH
11-08-2006, 08:32 PM
Well Mr Geer is from Texas so must be one hellova cooker!
I can see where this is going,gotta go get my cup and stand on the corner.

spicewine
11-08-2006, 08:53 PM
I'm kind of sorry I started this thread because we have gone up against the pellet poopers, stick burners, ceramic eggs and home made cookers and did our share of winning and loosing. In retrospect since this first posted-- It's the Cook and not necessarily the cooker that takes the walk. I have found out that it is the cook who knows there cooker and there cooking environment that is the one to beat, JMHO


Spice

HoDeDo
11-08-2006, 09:08 PM
I'm kind of sorry I started this thread because we have gone up against the pellet poopers, stick burners, ceramic eggs and home made cookers and did our share of winning and loosing. In retrospect since this first posted-- It's the Cook and not necessarily the cooker that takes the walk. I have found out that it is the cook who knows there cooker and there cooking environment that is the one to beat, JMHO


Spice

Dont have to look any further than Rod G. to see that theory in action. Pellet Envy - wins - cooking pellets or not :o)

As a side note... I was going to repost some pics of Jeff's pit, and the Team Q pit, so JKH could see some other really SWEEEEET paint jobs. Got any good paint job pics you can post so he has something else to drool over, Jay?

JKH
11-08-2006, 11:46 PM
I found this for us to drool over,on the second page you can see why and how the doors fit nice n snug by the way the cooking chamber doors are cut.

http://www.bennett-family.com/pics/pits/tuffy/

Another-

http://bennett-family.com/pics/pits/geer/

JKH
11-09-2006, 09:34 AM
I don't much care for offsets. First off, it just doesn't make any sense to me to put the fire on the side. Heat rises.
Using all wood can easily result in oversmoked food and that doesn't win much. The good cooks I know that use wood wrap their food early and often.



I just realised something,my offset doesn't always cook from the side.
When cooking a whole piggy or shoulders i start off cooking offset style,,then after 2 hours i'll start burning down wood in the firebox and shoveling and pushing the burnt coals thru the firebox baffle right under the oinker without opening the cooking chamber doors.Best of both worlds.Very versatile these cookers.

kcpellethead
11-09-2006, 10:52 AM
Guess i'll never be able to afford one either,i'd pay a grand to have a looksee inside one of his fireboxes though,so i guess we're talking 30k-1.2m somewhere in that price?

Bring your check book and you can see into my firebox all you want.

As for info about Pits by Jambo, Jamie Geer builds these pits as a hobby. When in the mood, he builds one to three of them each winter. He says it's just too hot to weld in the summers in Ft. Worth. News flash: Jamie says he's retired for now, so now pits this year. In fact, he's returned at least one deposit he had received. So, when someone asks about price, I guess my pit is priceless since the maker is not building pits.

The pictures of Tuffy's pit in progess on that website were taken in Jamie's shop. In that pic of his passenger side after it's painted, you can see my pit and another one in the background. That was two years ago. Oh, I waited a year after I ordered mine to get it.

Jamie is a fabulous cook. I think that lends to his ability to build a pit that cooks well. He also pays attention to detail and uses products that will allow his pit to look good for a long time. They are awesome units and draw a lot of attention from folks walking by.

I don't know what else I can say about Geer pits. I equate the fit and finish to a Spicewine unit. I've lusted for one of those ever since I got a good look at Jay's latest cooker in Columbia year before last.

Rod

SP
11-09-2006, 11:10 AM
Drool

JKH
11-09-2006, 11:38 AM
Oh yeah, it's bib time.
Never seen anything quite like that cooker,the firebox alone is porn.
The fit and finish and detail of that cooker in person must be something!

JKH
11-09-2006, 12:06 PM
Rod i have a question,the box right beside the firebox with the little stack,is that a grill or a place to keep BBQ warm for turnin ins? ya don't have to answer.

Plowboy
11-09-2006, 02:00 PM
Bring your check book and you can see into my firebox all you want.

Rod, nothing I own looks that shiney. 8-)

ique
11-09-2006, 06:08 PM
Rod i have a question,the box right beside the firebox with the little stack,is that a grill or a place to keep BBQ warm for turnin ins? ya don't have to answer.

Johnny Trigg has a very similar pit and I cooked next to him a few years ago in Philly. The Ferrari of bbq pits.

Thats a grill. I believe you can build a fire on two levels.

kcpellethead
11-09-2006, 10:26 PM
Chris is right. That is a traditional Texas chicken cooker. The stainless lid is hinged. The first drawer has a stainless water pan where they but water, beer, lemons, herbs, etc., and the bottom drawer is where the fire is. I have yet to use it, and probably never will. Just don't want to get it dirty.

The pit is still pretty clean, but not quite like that. I had just brought it home when I took those pics.

Rod

JKH
11-10-2006, 01:21 PM
A traditional texas chicken cooker-sweet.
Bock,onions,garlic,limes,limeleaves,almost forgot the chicken--
I know if that was in my ownership i'd be cooking on her everyother day,getting it really dirty then between cooks i'd lick it clean,and even give her a name,,Shania,,Twain for short.
Maybe the one time even ferrari is inapropriate,i mean they mass produce them cars,i live by a dealership and there's plenty of them in the showroom.