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boogiesnap
04-28-2011, 11:08 PM
i buy from restaurant depot. choice or their angus. look for marbling, grain, and flex. age in fridge @ 30 days. good stuff.

trim well. remove alot of fat so turn in isn't fatty, but not too much to lose all the flavor. good stuff.

inject with kosmos. good stuff.

rub with a bit of lawrys. then some beef spices(the usual suspects, fresh BP, fresh chili powder, garlic powder, etc., etc.) and some atlantic sea salt. not too much, not too little. good stuff.

use bbq'rs delight smoke stix. automatic sweet blue. cherry and some hickory. pecan from time to time. good stuff.

wrap and rest for a few hours. slice and dredge in pan/foil drippings(if not bitter) with a bit of sauce added. good stuff.

but my taste scores are terrible.

what am i missing?

Bigmista
04-28-2011, 11:29 PM
Did you pay people to judges with tastes that ar the same as yours? If you didn't, it's still a crapshoot.

boogiesnap
04-28-2011, 11:34 PM
Did you pay people to judges with tastes that ar the same as yours? If you didn't, it's still a crapshoot.


:grin:naw.

landarc
04-28-2011, 11:36 PM
Taste is so hard to judge, perhaps there is some conflict in the seasonings, or perhaps between the smoke and the seasonings. Perhaps get a few fellow competitors or women together to taste test. I find that women are the best taste testers, they seem to taste more flavors and a wider range.

Meat Burner
04-28-2011, 11:39 PM
Yep, same here. If taste scores are the problem, start changing one thing at a time and see what happens. Too often, you change multiple things and then you have no clue what was good or bad. Just opinion bro.

boogiesnap
04-28-2011, 11:42 PM
Taste is so hard to judge, perhaps there is some conflict in the seasonings, or perhaps between the smoke and the seasonings. Perhaps get a few fellow competitors or women together to taste test. I find that women are the best taste testers, they seem to taste more flavors and a wider range.

i agree. but what from my process would conflict? it's pretty middle of the road, for comp judging standards. not too spicey, salty, sweet, smokey, yadda, yadda...

huminie
04-28-2011, 11:47 PM
If you could attach a few slices of your brisket to this thread I would gladly tell you what you are doing wrong.

bigdogphin
04-28-2011, 11:53 PM
inject with kosmos. good stuff.

rub with a bit of lawrys. then some beef spices(the usual suspects, fresh BP, fresh chili powder, garlic powder, etc., etc.) and some atlantic sea salt. not too much, not too little. good stuff.

use bbq'rs delight smoke stix. automatic sweet blue. cherry and some hickory. pecan from time to time. good stuff.




For me there seems to be a lot of flavors going here for brisket. Try simplifying things and start from there.

boogiesnap
04-28-2011, 11:58 PM
If you could attach a few slices of your brisket to this thread I would gladly tell you what you are doing wrong.

how bout telling us what you did different than that to get 3rd in sacramento!

nice job btw.

huminie
04-29-2011, 12:14 AM
You notice that? Aww, shucks. Thanks!

My point was just to point out that taste is hard to critique over the interwebs.

I will say that my brisket was very basic and "beefy". I did a lot of the same things as you describe, but my flavors focused on enhancing the beef flavor rather than adding new flavors to the party. I did some aggressive trimming, my injection was very basic, my rubs were basic, with a top layer of something I can get locally that I am testing out and I did not sauce at all. Everything I did just built on the beef flavor.

Not sure if that helps, but it is what it is.

boogiesnap
04-29-2011, 12:23 AM
You notice that? Aww, shucks. Thanks!

My point was just to point out that taste is hard to critique over the interwebs.

I will say that my brisket was very basic and "beefy". I did a lot of the same things as you describe, but my flavors focused on enhancing the beef flavor rather than adding new flavors to the party. I did some aggressive trimming, my injection was very basic, my rubs were basic, with a top layer of something I can get locally that I am testing out and I did not sauce at all. Everything I did just built on the beef flavor.

Not sure if that helps, but it is what it is.

yeah, congrats for sure.

not sure if you posted it here, but i follow BBQBUG.

well, i guess thats my point. if i wrote i slather in a wasabi mayo paste, well, that might be the problem...

but i don't. pretty basic. thus the querry...:-D

AZScott
04-29-2011, 12:41 AM
What are your tenderness scores? If it dries out in the box and on the paper, your taste scores are really going to suffer. I have changed nothing to my brisket but when my tenderness scores high, the taste is right there with it.

Hub
04-29-2011, 07:09 AM
This is a tough one, boogiesnap -- and there are some good suggestions here already. I'll chime in with what I consider the important flavor elements:

1. Underlying beef flavor of the meat
2. Tinge of smokiness
3. Tang of rub and/or sauce

These three need to have a BALANCE with none of the three being a dominant flavor provider. Obviously these components need to be somewhat "middle of the road" for competition where you must please a broad range of palates.

When I judge a brisket entry and score one low for the taste attribute it is usually because the piece is bland or one of the taste elements above is out of whack and is about all I can detect.

I also find (as both a cook and a judge) that moisture is quite critical. Although this is a texture attribute, it "combines" into the judging experience. A dry, mealy often correlates to a low taste score because there is not as much to carry the flavors.

Good luck -- I hope you find the changes that will kick your scores up.

Smokedelic
04-29-2011, 07:24 AM
While components of your recipe may be "good stuff" in and of themselves, they may not be "good stuff" when combined with the other components. For example, banana pudding is good stuff, and chili is good stuff, but if I stirred a bunch of chili into my banana pudding, I don't think it would be good stuff.

If it were me, I'd switch to a commercial rub that has a tried and true track record, there are plenty to choose from, and start from there. No sense in reinventing the wheel.

...but that's just me.

CoBeth
04-29-2011, 08:08 AM
My first thought was the "fresh chili powder". What kind of chili powder; what kind of chilies? I have found with some chili powders, the taste can have a bitter finish and totally ruin an otherwise great brisket. I have had issues with some chipotle chili powders, while others don't produce that note.

Capn Kev
04-29-2011, 08:22 AM
What you've mentioned is just the start...

1) Try adding some additional beef flavor into the liquid in your injection process. Consumme, beef broth, etc.
2) Make sure you're re-seasoning just before boxing too. Think beefy layers of flavor that blend well. Use your pan drippings as a base... if it's flavor is good. A last minute sprinkle of salt before boxing helps brighten all of the residual flavors that you've built up during the process.

Good luck! :thumb:

boogiesnap
04-29-2011, 09:19 AM
thanks everyone. great feedback!

i was thinking along those exact lines, but wasn't sure.

bovine bold and some beef stock!

thanks again!:thumb:

boogiesnap
04-29-2011, 09:23 AM
What you've mentioned is just the start...

1) Try adding some additional beef flavor into the liquid in your injection process. Consumme, beef broth, etc.
2) Make sure you're re-seasoning just before boxing too. Think beefy layers of flavor that blend well. Use your pan drippings as a base... if it's flavor is good. A last minute sprinkle of salt before boxing helps brighten all of the residual flavors that you've built up during the process.

Good luck! :thumb:

how bout a VERY light sprinkle of say...oh i dunno...Accent?

BBQchef33
04-29-2011, 09:31 AM
heres what i would do.

First.. Smoke Stix? in what cooker, and how much? those can be strong if you use to much. I would try with just fuel. (wood, lump, charcoal, whatever.. leave out the smokestick.

if thats not the issue, switch up the rub, either go commercial, or just try a salt/pepper/garlic.

and like they others have said, let someone else be your tasters. Give them a blind test. I did some significant changes over the winter. Used the family and a few neighbors to blind test the products. Went to a local BBQ joint, bought a lb each of brisket and pork.

Used that in the blind test. Not comparisons, but to make sure they were judging blind.

Thank god each time i scored higher, if I cant beat famous daves, im taking up baking.

boogiesnap
04-29-2011, 10:17 AM
thanks poobah.

it's a WSM.

i do try to keep smoke flavor on the lighter side. i use about 4 1 inch discs.

QansasjayhawQ
04-29-2011, 03:42 PM
[snip] These three need to have a BALANCE with none of the three being a dominant flavor provider.

and

. . . or one of the taste elements above is out of whack and is about all I can detect.
I have described this as being similar to listening to music.

I can listen to a wide range of music. I can appreciate the music of the musicians all play their part - and if none of the musicians is too loud. The band has to be well balanced in its sound to be enjoyable. If you have a drummer just banging away too loudly, it will ruin the music. No matter which style it is.

Thanks for the thought, Hub - it's a good one.

ique
04-29-2011, 04:13 PM
but my taste scores are terrible.

what am i missing?

How many contests have you received el crapo taste scores? Careful making changes on a small sample size. If less than 3 or 4 I would not change anything and just focus on cooking the brisket perfectly

boogiesnap
04-29-2011, 04:18 PM
How many contests have you received el crapo taste scores? Careful making changes on a small sample size. If less than 3 or 4 I would not change anything and just focus on cooking the brisket perfectly

3:icon_blush:

Lakeside Smoker
04-29-2011, 04:26 PM
how bout a VERY light sprinkle of say...oh i dunno...Accent?

Well, I think that is a fantastic idea! :-D
Let me know if you need some.

-Mike

YankeeBBQ
04-29-2011, 04:44 PM
how bout a VERY light sprinkle of say...oh i dunno...Accent?

Wouldn't that make crap taste like enhanced crap ? Just sayin :biggrin1:
That's a pretty heavy smokering for a WSM. I'm thinking you may be a bit heavy on smoke.

boogiesnap
04-29-2011, 05:23 PM
Wouldn't that make crap taste like enhanced crap ? Just sayin :biggrin1:
That's a pretty heavy smokering for a WSM. I'm thinking you may be a bit heavy on smoke.

funny you say that.

that brisket got EXACTLY 2 hours of light smoke and no more. then 2 hours in foil and 2 hours rest.

boogiesnap
04-29-2011, 07:55 PM
Wouldn't that make crap taste like enhanced crap ? Just sayin :biggrin1:
That's a pretty heavy smokering for a WSM. I'm thinking you may be a bit heavy on smoke.

it's not crap. it's just getting low judging scores, fella. :boxing:

huminie
04-29-2011, 11:20 PM
it's not crap. it's just getting low judging scores, fella. :boxing:

Down boy! *points to your thread title*

boogiesnap
04-29-2011, 11:39 PM
Down boy! *points to your thread title*

hmmm, but title reads taste crapo SCORES.

not how to make CRAP taste better...

it's all in good fun.

but please refrain from referencing me similar to a canine. although if i could only be as loyal, loving, and just plain cuddly....

huminie
04-30-2011, 12:25 AM
I dunno bro...kinda looks like "el crapo brisket, taste scores"...

Woof!

landarc
04-30-2011, 01:01 AM
Boogie, if you have the time, run some more tests. For me, I have tasted some commercial rubs that just do not taste good with certain sauces, just to me. Others may differ. A recent example...I tried Uncle Sunny's, alone and with some neutral Santa Maria rub, it tasted great. But, with Three-Eyz, a very good rub, there was an off flavor. I felt they didn't play well together. I would remove an element here or there, get some tasters and see what they say.

boogiesnap
04-30-2011, 08:21 AM
I dunno bro...kinda looks like "el crapo brisket, taste scores"...

Woof!

fair enough. i guess i did leave myself open for that!

every dog has his day!

QansasjayhawQ
04-30-2011, 02:45 PM
One more thing to consider . . .

I think that the field is getting better and better all the time. I am seeing fewer and fewer just plain bad entries. So a lot of the samples are all getting high scores.

Just like this weekend's NASCAR qualifying in Richmond. 43 entries all qualifying within .58 seconds of each other. (OK, with one outlier.) Now that's a bunch of really outstanding cars and drivers.

Same thing could be happening with your brisket - just because you're placing low, doesn't necessarily mean you're tasting bad.

I mean, if you got third in SF, then you're obviously doing something right -

So, what exactly were the taste scores you received? Did someone fill out a comment card for you?

Podge
04-30-2011, 04:23 PM
Tenderness affects taste.. you may not think so, but it does.

boogiesnap
04-30-2011, 06:17 PM
jayhawk, huminie got 3rd, not me. :icon_blush:

i got 13th and 17.

and podge, i'm of the school of thought that tenderness is the gateway to taste. if it aint tender it aint gonna be tastey.

imho, tenderness should be weighted higher than taste. or at least equal.

but i can see where there'd be issues with that as well.