Please help this newbie Q'er

[natureboy]

Hello from San Antonio, TX.

I've been just leark'in for a while, gathering as many pearls of Q wisdom as I can. I had smoked a time or two before finding this forum and turned out some really rotten Q (though the family raves about it - I think they are just trying to not hurt my feelings). I've since midified my Bandera with a baffle, door gasket and fire bricks. I'm ready to take it up a notch and turn out some REALLY GOOD Q.

I want to smoke a brisket and I'm not clear on some of the info on other threads. Such as, what the hell is the "flat" and what is the "point". I read the thread about the OK Joe method and want to try it. I think I understand that at some temperature (some say 140 others 190) you cut off the flat, maybe (or not ) trim the point and let it cook longer. The flat is supposed to be "done" at that time so I suppose you wrap in foil and store till ready to eat?. Is the point smoked longer witout wrapping? You give it about 4 hours (or till internal temp is where you want it?).

Also, is the meat actually "smoked" throughout the entire cooking time or do some of those formulas (4-4-2 or some permutation) apply?

Last question. Beer can chicken - any better cooked in the smoker vs indirect heat on a grill top?

I await a message from on high.

[BBQchef33]

Natureboy(Ric Flair?) ... pretty gutsy choosing brisket early in the learning curve, but if your ok with your fire management we can get ya going. Brisket consists of 3 separate cuts. The point, the nose and the flat. The flat is the thinner portion of the brisket where the grain runs in a single direction. Its often referred to as first cut, flat half, or thin cut, its less fatty and more desirable(to some) :) The point half or “thick cut” consists of the point and the nose. The point is the top piece. The nose is the bottom. Running horizontally between the point half and the flat is a thin vein of fat. On a fully cooked brisket, a long knife can be slid thru this fat to separate flat and point. the grain in the flat runs a near 90 degrees from the grain in the point. The grain on the point runs about 40 degrees off the grain of the nose. Also, the point half being much thicker, takes longer to cook, so some people will separate it from the flat when they feel the flat is done cooking.

There are many ways we cook briskets and you have to find your own technique, but heres some rules of thumb.

There is no numeric rule of thumb for briskets. The 3-2-1 is for spare ribs, but we don’t do that for briskets or butts. For briskets, an hour per lb is the rule to estimate timing But I have had briskets get stuck at 165-170 for so long that they took more like 1:15-1:30 per lb to complete. To estimate time, use about an hour per lb for angus certified or choice briskets like excel or red oak. For Kobe and Awagu estimate at about 45 minutes per lb.

With briskets, time is irrelevant and even temperature is only a partial deciding factor. It is more important to get the "feel" of doneness. To tell if the flat is tender, a probe or meat thermometer should be pressed into it. If it offers little or no resistance, its done. This "done" temperature can be anywhere from 180 to 200 degrees. So start checking for doneness at the 180 mark.

Separating the point half from the flat is something i don’t do, maybe someone else can chime in on that. I cook the entire brisket together, unless I'm going to make burnt ends, then i cube/chop the point and nose and return them to the smoke.

Foiling is up to you, but it is usually done at 175-180. This doesnt mean you stop doing the probe test. Still poke thru the foil. Some bring briskets to the 190-200 range. Personally, i would not cook a brisket above 185. 190 starts to scare me. Even if it doesn't feel done, at those temps it can start to dry out, so i would wrap it in foil and cooler it for a few hours to let it tenderize using its own heat load.

hope this gets ya stated... more quesitons.. ask away!!

oh yeah....
Beer can chicken??? You decide.. I like it better indirect in the kettle than in the smokers... Never did it in a gas grill.

[Neil]

Thanks for the photo Phil. I was always a little unsure about the point/nose prior to the above explanation.

[jt]

My last brisket I went to the 'edge' of dry. The point was still good but the flat was starting to dry out. Of course, once it's foodsavered with some of the juice it comes out good after reheating! :D

I'm looking at trying Jim Minion's method on my next one of not foiling until 185 or so. Don't know how much longer that will take it to get done. I've got 2 briskets in the freezer so I'll probably do one foiled and one not to see an approximate difference.

I follow the temps but like Phil keep checking the 'feel' - when the probe just slips in easily then it's ready.

And yes, thanks for the photo, Phil. That just clarifies it for me.

[tommykendall]

Phil - is that a new kitchen or did you just clean it up real good?

[Bigmista]

I saw "Nature Boy" and was looking for Jazz reference but I guess that's just me. Glad you decided to come out of the shadows.

You're a braver man than me. It took me quite a while to work up the nerve to do a brisket. Now, thanks to these guys, I make a pretty mean one.

Pay attention to what's said, share what you learn and don't get offended by the humor and you will fit right in here!

Welcome!

[Jorge]

Hello from San Antonio, TX.

Greetings fellow Texican. What part of SA? Lived there several times growing up, and my parents retired there.

I've since midified my Bandera with a baffle, door gasket and fire bricks. I'm ready to take it up a notch and turn out some REALLY GOOD Q.

How about the expanded metal in the firebox? Made a world of difference for me when it came to managing the fire.

I want to smoke a brisket and I'm not clear on some of the info on other threads. Such as, what the hell is the "flat" and what is the "point". I read the thread about the OK Joe method and want to try it. I think I understand that at some temperature (some say 140 others 190) you cut off the flat, maybe (or not ) trim the point and let it cook longer. The flat is supposed to be "done" at that time so I suppose you wrap in foil and store till ready to eat?. Is the point smoked longer witout wrapping? You give it about 4 hours (or till internal temp is where you want it?).

Phil covered this earlier. I've seperated the point before and enjoyed it, but unless I'm doing burnt ends it just isn't worth the effort for me. When I start slicing and serving I usually start with the flat end. If there is anything left it's always the the 'point' end. Works well for me since I usually foodsaver what's left and freeze it. Foodsaver keeps the fat from going rancid, and that extra fat comes in handy when it's time to reheat the meat later on. But, like just about everything else about Q, personal preference is what it's all about.


Last question. Beer can chicken - any better cooked in the smoker vs indirect heat on a grill top?

Best I've ever done has always been using both methods. Smoke it slowly and then when I'm getting ready to serve it toss a grill into the fire box and set the birds in there for a couple of minutes. Crisps up the skin just a little, and gives it a hint of the flavor you get from grilling. Again, personal preference

[willkat98]

Phil - is that a new kitchen or did you just clean it up real good?

Good one, but the picture is from virtual weber bullet

Good thread. Learn something new every day.

I love fat cap down brisket

Mad_Dawg just pointed me to a butcher locally that sells briskets at 1.90#

Thats cheap for this area.

[tommykendall]

I didn't dare ask if it was someone else's kitchen. :)

[racer_81]

I didn't dare ask if it was someone else's kitchen. :)

That'd be.....Sleeping With Sir****saLot Mod

[tommykendall]

That'd be.....Sleeping With Sir****saLot Mod


No - it just didn't look at all like Phil's kitchen - I was thinking a remodel mod

[natureboy]

Well, what can I say but Muchos Thanks to all for your helpful (and amusing) comments.

Jorge, I graduated from Jefferson HS and my parents still live where I grew up ; very close to St. Mary's University. I now live around the USAA area.

I'll keep everyone posted on how things worked out.

Best Regards to All

[TedWagner]

Natureboy, if you have free time today visit the San Antonio Rodeo BBQ Cookoff. There was an article on it in yesterday's SA paper and the link is www.sabbq.com. Good place to taste a bunch of different que and ask questions.

[Solidkick]

Natureboy, if you have free time today visit the San Antonio Rodeo BBQ Cookoff. There was an article on it in yesterday's SA paper and the link is www.sabbq.com. Good place to taste a bunch of different que and ask questions.

OMG!! Ted!! Good to see you again!! Don't be a stranger!!

[natureboy]

Smoked a 10# brisket Sunday. Tried the mustard "pre-rub" and used "RUDY's Rub" (Local BBQ joint with pretty good stuff). I must say things went better than ever (though still room for improvement). Had to finish in the oven for 1.5 hr with an oven bag (partytime came too soon). Total time in the smoker aprox 12hrs. But even I was impressed with the outcome. Next time I need to allow more time to cook. My box temps were also probably too low (monitored with oven thermometers inside - tried not to peek too often). I got me a wireless meat thermometer but what it calls "medium" was pretty "rare". I'm not sure how to use it to monitor smokebox temps. Have read threads about using a potato or a cork? Any info would be appreciated. Next time I want the brisket start to finish in the smoke box. The oven was good in a pinch but it did come our soggy from the effect of the oven bag. Still it was DELISH. Thansks, buds for your help.

[Neil]

Congratulations on a successfull brisket. Like Phil said, pretty gutsy move.

[Jorge]

I got me a wireless meat thermometer but what it calls "medium" was pretty "rare". I'm not sure how to use it to monitor smokebox temps. Have read threads about using a potato or a cork? Any info would be appreciated.

Decide where you want to monitor the temp and that's where the tater and probe go. Insert the probe with the tip sticking out and then place the combo in the selected location.

Congrats on a good cook.! :D