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Carnivorous Endeavors BBQ
04-22-2011, 10:59 AM
Let me first start by stating a couple of facts:
1. I haven't competed in a KCBS contest...yet.
2. I've only judged a few contests.

Ok, now to the idea at hand. I have been thinking a lot about recent posts questioning consistency of judging. My personal opinion is that it will almost always have variance due to humans being humans. What i mean by that is just because someone is a CBJ doesn't mean they won't compare, won't only judge meat but WILL judge on garnish...etc..it's not right but we all know it happens. In addition to that, personal flavor preference will always vary, we all to some degree love what we know from life experience (i.e. grandma's cooking).
With all the above in mind, Do you think it would be unreasonable to divide Judges further than, no spouses or friends on a table, only one newbie per table? How about taking it a little further and mix tables based on:
1. Age (Lets mix young and older judges on a table)
2. Sex (mix women and men as much as possible)
3. Geographical location ( lets not have all southerners or east coast...etc on one table)
4. Divide the master judges across available tables.

I've seen the contest rep mix up some tables but wonder if it should be taken a little further? Before someone berates me for posting this...i do understand it would make life more difficult for reps and organizers but i think the time, effort and expense cooks put into contests are worth the best judging system that can be put in place. Any thoughts (preferrably positive)?:becky:

Q-Dat
04-22-2011, 11:20 AM
I absolutely agree on everything you just said.

The only thing I would add would be at the judges meeting before every competition to have a mandatory five minute rant about the evils of personal bias! I think the point needs to be drilled home hard and often!

Rookie'48
04-22-2011, 11:21 AM
Some Reps already do this, some don't. At a couple of comps I've seen judges split up just about like you wanted - Master CBJs/newbies, male/female, under 5 comps/over 5 comps. On the geographic split, the only time that I saw that done was when Steph ran the OK Joe's Brisket Open at the GAB last year. All 6 of us at the final table were from different parts of the country.

Carnivorous Endeavors BBQ
04-22-2011, 12:29 PM
Q dat,

I agree with you there. It should be stressed to the judges for the technical aspects but flavor will always be subjective. In my mind it should be stressed to table captains to review and repeat certain aspects. I had a really good table captains at the last two judgings. They continually said things like " here is box number xxx, you are judging this on the appearance of the meat, again the appearance of THE MEAT!" I did get my table captain certification and think TCs should review the basics and stress them with each table they run. I know this may irritate some judges but it can't hurt to stress the basics of judging.

Arlin_MacRae
04-22-2011, 12:42 PM
I was told they did this very thing at the Enid comp two weeks ago, although I don't know about the geographic location. The other three, yep.

Slamdunkpro
04-22-2011, 12:45 PM
Do you think it would be unreasonable to divide Judges further than, no spouses or friends on a table, only one newbie per table? How about taking it a little further and mix tables based on:
1. Age (Lets mix young and older judges on a table)
2. Sex (mix women and men as much as possible)
3. Geographical location ( lets not have all southerners or east coast...etc on one table)
4. Divide the master judges across available tables.

#'s 1,2,& 4 are done pretty regularly around here as well as separation of spoused and distribution of new / master judges. It's pretty hard to do #3 depending on the size of the event.

Bentley
04-22-2011, 12:57 PM
Kelly & Kathleen Mcintosh for several years have the CBJ's line up in order of experience, then depending on amount of tables, mark off 1,2,3,4...

It gives a very good sample of experience at each table. Here in CA, much like any local competition is pretty much going to draw from the local pool, so not sure at most contests that there are gonna be a lot of different regions represented.

smoke-n-my-i's
04-22-2011, 01:05 PM
I pretty much agree. Here is a link to a comp fairly local to us in September. They are looking for 50 teams and have 4 confirmed so far. They have the table captains and judges already and assigned. I looked over the locations everyone is coming from, and, well, they are pretty much well distributed from what I can tell. What do you think....

http://www.bikerbluesbbqrally.com/files/judgelists.htm

Since close to 90% are local, it isn't hard to mix up the geographics... :thumb:

Carnivorous Endeavors BBQ
04-22-2011, 01:20 PM
Yes. that looks like a good distribution. I understand that a lot of time that local judges are the majority but i was at a contest a while back that had judges from Illinois, Tennessee, Alabama Texas, Missouri etc... just don't think it would hurt to randomize the tables as best as possible. Heck, I would even go so far as to ask if anyone at a table has judged with anyone else on a table in the last few comps and separate them if possible. I know i am being pretty unrealistic, i just think the cooks deserve the most even judging field possible.

JD McGee
04-22-2011, 02:20 PM
Great question...and I agree that the judges should be assigned tables accordingly to ensure an equal representation of skills.
Interestingly enough our first comp of the season has 3 CBJ's that were all cooks at the Jack last year all sitting at one table...

smoke-n-my-i's
04-22-2011, 02:57 PM
Yes, as a cook myself, we deserve all the help we can get. It is amazing that 4 judges can give a 9, and two others give a 6.... just saying.

Smokin' Hicks
04-22-2011, 03:31 PM
SPOT ON ......i could only dream of the KCBS doing this

Lake Dogs
04-22-2011, 04:56 PM
Yep, being old & ugly guy, I *NEED* hot women to help me judge at my table!

;-)

I think many comps do most of those to the best of their ability, except perhaps the regional thing. I also think you can read too much into the regional thing. Fact is, some like it spicy; some dont. Some like it sweeter than others. Some like a little food with their salt; some despise salty.