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View Full Version : First Comp Judged: My Experience - Long, No Pron


Arlin_MacRae
04-16-2011, 10:44 PM
This post is mostly for those of you who are judges but haven't been to your first gig, or you're thinking of becoming judges. The rest of you - no laughing. :wink: Feel free to ask or constructively criticise me after reading. Learning is good.

Today Jeannie and I crossed over from mere badge owners to real KCBS CBJ's by judging at Smokin' Red Dirt in Enid, OK. Perhaps not so coincidently, it was held in the same building we took our CBJ class in. Worked for us, anyway.

We arrived 30 minutes early (we did NOT want to be late!) and we found out someone had organized the judging tent to a 'T'. There were sign-in sheets and we found all the judges were already assigned to tables. The tables had sheets of paper taped on them showing the table number and the judges' names, ranked by experience (we were the bottom of our table lists, yes!). My table captain (Rhoda) was the only one sitting there and, as it turns out, her husband was table captain at Jean's table. Fun. I feel sorry for Rhoda a little as I look back on my machinegun-like questioning of her, but she was awesome and I learned a ton before another judge even sat down. They say the table captains will take care of you, and if that husband and wife team is typical, it's true beyond belief. Thanks, Rhoda, wherever you are. You're a gem and you started another judge out right!

So other judges started sitting down and we introduced ourselves and yeah, I'm a newbie and I'm all squishy and excited. :laugh: I sat next to Susan (can't remember her last name) and I recognized her from somewhere. When I saw her CBJ badge I almost did the "I'm not worthy" genuflection bit. She was CBJ #234. Two. Three. Four. Mine is 24,308. Wow. Anyway, that flaming orange hair was recognizable as I found out - she and her hubby had just judged up at Pleasant Hill, Jeff Stith's awesome annual Big Creek competition. Small world. Anyway, she helped me throughout the entire competition with funny stories and kind guidance and she was a hoot to boot. GREAT gal. Thank you!!!

Going in, both Jean and I were nervous. We were afraid that we'd hurt a team by judging them too low or by judging another team too high. Personally, I didn't worry a LOT about going too low, because the lowest score is tossed out. I was more worried about awarding a 9, then finding the next entry should have been a ten, but couldn't be. Know what I mean? Now I've ranked both of them the same when clearly the sample I had second should have been the only 9. I was also worried about taking too long. I found out at CBJ class that I seemed to need more time than the average bear to really look at a box to nail the appearance score in my mind. I also had no practical experience at all when it came to judging six entries within the set time limit.

I reigned myself in when it came to awarding nines on appearance, taste, and tenderness, and it worked. I think I gave two perfect 999's (but several were close), and the table captain let me know my numbers were right in line with the other five judges. Did I go further down the scale? Oh you bet. Like I said earlier, I wasn't afraid of being the lowest, 'cause mine would get tossed. I gave out plenty of 8's, some 7's, and one or two 6's. Even one 5. Kiss of death, that 5? Maybe. I agonized over it and still marked it that way. The entry was pretty ugh. Nothing was inedible during the session, although I heard stories of 2's being given. Thankfully I didn't have to even think of going that low!

One thing that helped me was my knowledge of what championship entries looked and tasted like. Thanks to Dammitandy and Kim of Smoke-on-Wheels for that. I know what can be done to those four meats when you know what you're doing. A lot of entries hit that mental mark today and, sorry guys, one rib was the best I'd EVER had. :laugh:

I discovered the way to get maximum appearance judging time was to sit near the middle of the table. I watched the boxes as they came towards me, when they were in front of me, and when they were heading to the other end of the table. A simple solution, yes, but if you don't think about it and sit on an end you'd better have quick eyes! As far as taking all the time I needed to judge taste and tenderness, I just DID. I was the last to turn in my card every time but once - but I never came close to the time limit and my fellow judges & the table captain never even sighed loudly - bless their hearts. I'll get faster, I'm sure, but I wasn't going to rush it this time. I probably won't try to do that for the next few. Why risk hurting a team because you missed something while trying to be as fast as your neighbor?

Another thing that was kinda tough to do without constantly thinking about it was to completely forget the sample I had just tasted as I bit into something new. NO COMPARING SAMPLES! I got through that pretty well, actually. It's probably like working a muscle over time: it'll get stronger and easier.

Food management (stomach management). Holy farking hell... Rookie Dave, I don't know how you judged seven categories wherever the heck you were that one time. THIS boy was stuffed like a tick at the end, today! Our table judged 23 meat samples and two desserts and that was pushing it for me. And I can eat!! I was worrying about Jean somewhere behind me. I pictured her being sent to the juicing room like that girl on Willy Wonka. :-D I tried to nail taste & tenderness in no more than two bites. A few times it just wasn't possible, and a couple of times I HAD to have a third bite of whatever it was, because it was so good! No more of that chit. URP Strangely enough, the ones I needed three bites of were all bland and I was looking for flavor. I hope I'll learn to decide quickly that yes, there's very little flavor here. Either that or I'll be stuffed again and again...

What else...paper towels. Grab a bunch! Keep one wet at all times - or take your own damp towel/wash cloth. Chicken was phenomenally messy. "I'm supposed to pick up a pen and write after each of these? SURE!" LOL

Let me close this rambling beast with this: I only know a couple of guys who judge a lot, and they're great guys, but I wasn't sure about judges in general. They're just like the cooks, it turns out, trying to put out the best product they can - them by being fair, accurate, consistent, and fast. It was a blast today. And I'm VERY glad you Brethren taught me first about the blood, sweat, tears, and frustration you go through to put meat before a judge. I salute you all. Now where are those farking Tums?!!!

Arlin

Rookie'48
04-16-2011, 11:04 PM
Congrats to Arlin & his Darlin' :-D.
It sounds like you two did some good judging, learned a lot & had a lot of fun. On the food management thing, now you see what we were talking about - one or two bites only or you'll never make it through the day! About the seven or eight catagories; that happens at the Royal on Saturday. Four meats in the Invite, plus potatos, sausage, veggies and dessert (or whatever the extras are) will make you call for a forklift to carry your arse out of the judging "tent". That's why I'm only judging the meats this year, that & the fact that last year when we got done judging dessert they had already started doing the Awards for the Invitational.
Congrats again & I'm sure that we'll see each other down the trail!

HeSmellsLikeSmoke
04-16-2011, 11:13 PM
Enjoyed your thoughtful account. Thanks for taking the time to share your experience.

Arlin_MacRae
04-16-2011, 11:15 PM
Thanks, Jim. To be honest, Rookie Dave suggested it. Great idea. I might even have done it on my own. :becky:

Butcher BBQ
04-17-2011, 07:34 AM
Glad you had a good experience. We enjoyed the day and alway enjoy talking with judges.

ModelMaker
04-17-2011, 11:44 AM
Welcome to the world of jeez I'm full!
My first was the Iowa State championship in Marshalltown back in '06. You walk in not knowing anybody or anything. It was one to remember, I kept thinking when am I gonna see a bad sample of bbq.
In my mind it has kinda turned into a 8 or 9 excessive score time for judges. A score of 9 should be reserved for the very best and only experience will allow for that .
Remember a 7 is ABOVE avg. not a punishment.
Your fellow judges will be a great source of information, use their resources and advice. It won't take long to find the ones you will want to avoid, trust me.
As for being the last judge judging I am almost always him. Don't care it's not a race. I get a little peterbed at the ones that speed through it, I think it makes them feel superior or something.
Anyway welcome, enjoy it for what it is. No more no less.
Ed

Arlin_MacRae
04-17-2011, 12:56 PM
Thanks, Ed!!

Arlin

Smokin' Hicks
04-17-2011, 04:06 PM
Arlin your article you typed has reinvigorated me about competing.....it is so swesome to see a judge take her time and do things the right way...i was really starting to question if those types of judges were out there it was really great to see that they are....great job and thank you for doing it the right way and taking your time and having attention to detail

guntera
04-17-2011, 05:09 PM
Thanks Arlin for jumping in first since we took the class together. Sounds like you took it all in. My wife and I's first comp judging will be in Tecumseh for the Smokin good Thang in June. We cant wait!

FattyMac
04-17-2011, 07:28 PM
Thanks for the great write up. I was thinking of taking the judge's course in may. Now there is no way I will miss it!

Sent from my Nexus One using Tapatalk

GorillaCop
04-17-2011, 10:49 PM
Great info! Thanks for the article Arlin! Just got certified this past weekend and cant wait to get started.

Arlin_MacRae
04-17-2011, 10:52 PM
Go for it, guys! It was very rewarding and we can't wait for #2.

carlyle
04-18-2011, 12:13 PM
Arlin - Thanks so much for using your badge and judging.

Even bigger thanks for sharing all of this with everyone.

The thought process, concern for the team being judged, and serious minded approach to the task that you describe are spot on. This is the way it is supposed to be.

Even better is for everyone to know that your concern level is not unique. This serious minded approach is what I frequently encounter with judges.

Cooks and judges need to read and understand what you are saying.

This thread takes a step in demystifying what goes on in the judging area after the box is turned in.

Stomach management is always a big issue. Love how you describe this -- LOL
My best advice in addition to what you have already figured out is to take a small
sprig of parsley between each sample so you do not fill up on water or crackers
but still have a clear palate for the next entry. Parsley is always in plentiful supply from turnin boxes after appearance score.

Bless you Keep on judging.

Arlin_MacRae
04-18-2011, 12:24 PM
Carlyle, THANK YOU for the parsley suggestion. DUH - that's brilliant. I was eating crackers & drinking water to clear my pallet - and probably bloating myself up more! LOL

And thank you for your kind words.

Arlin

Lake Dogs
04-18-2011, 01:01 PM
Great write-up Arlin! Welcome to the ranks of judging scum (this IS the pot welcoming in another black kettle)!

You'd said:
> one rib was the best I'd EVER had.

This is what ticks me off more than anything when I see folks write about competition
not being REAL barbecue. Until you've had the delight of judging, lets not cast that
stone. I do a darned fine rib and every once in a while really hit it outa the park. However, even as good as mine have been now & again, the absolute best barbecue I've ever had, EVER, was judging one time, judging Gwatney's ribs that day. WOW.

I'm really glad you were the good/concerned judge. Unfortunately there are those who just judge a little willy-nilly without real concern as to the consequences, and either give away 9's or score 6's for anything not just perfect in their eye. Either one isn't fair. I've always preferred the critical but consistent and fair one (judge).


<--- 80+ comps judged myself (mostly MIM/MBN) and will do another 4 comps this year.

To the stomach management thing: It's tough to explain to new/rookie teams that they have to hit it right in 1 or 2 bites. Consistently they think you're going to be eating a whole chicken piece. Any judge with more than 2 competitions knows to try to hit it on that initial bite. I spend a good bit of time testing tenderness with my fangerz and smelling it to get that flavor profile thoroughly in before actually taking the bite. With any luck that 2nd bite will be the "is it a 7 or 8" bite. Most 9's stand out (IMHO). Most 6's and below stand out too. 3rd bite, for me, is rare, and usually is only because it's SOOOO darned good I'll just have to hit that again. :-) And so goes the TUMS. To me, the toughest table (It'll happen if you judge enough) is the one where you get 5 entries who could all be in the top 5 in the competition. It can be very tough to tell the 8 from the 9.... In MBN that table will be the difference in one of them making it to finals and the others not, OR WORSE none of them making it to finals because the judges split on which one was best. Judging, if you're really concerned, can be a real ***** sometimes...

QansasjayhawQ
04-18-2011, 04:19 PM
Awesome write up!

First thing I'd like to share with you is . . . don't ever - NEVER - get in a rush. It's easy to feel the urge to rush with so much activity around you - but just don't do it. Take as much time as you need because, as you found out, there's really plenty of time between categories. I am almost always the last to finish at the table - no matter where I go. And nobody ever says a word about it. And on appearance, same deal. Take all the time you need. Most judges give the table captain a little head nod when they have had enough time and the TC is always happy to give you the time you need. [ Although I can imagine there would be some limits to this. :-) ] The score you give is a very important decision and it should not come at the expense of a rush decision.
If that's how much time you need to come to a fair conclusion, then by all means take it.

Then, if you feel more knowledgeable after one judging experience, just wait until you've finished ten contests. I believe that a judge should be considered a rookie until at least ten are under their belt (so to speak). And don't do table captain duty too early. Spend at least ten contests learning. Then, when you do table captain, you will be able to better help the other judges at your table if they need it.

I use the crackers and water between each sample. I only eat a half a cracker and take just a small sip of water. By the end of 24 samples (or so) I am packed - but usually not entirely miserable. The full stomach is also helped by chewing gum on the way home.

Another time that I take as long as I need is when the sample containers are being passed around. I take the time to wipe my fingers with a wet and dry towel between removing the sample to my plate so that I avoid cross-contaminating the flavors of the entries with each other's sauces, etc.
Bottom line - don't rush through anything.

Another thought - you WILL see a lot of the same folks at each contest. There are even a few couples that travel far and wide to judge (as you saw). That Susan lady is most likely Susan Goyette. She and her husband John are some of the greatest people you'd ever want to meet . . . and they are one of the couples that travel all over to judge.

I am glad you two had fun - and there's a lot more fun (and heartbreak) to come in your judging experience.

Welcome to the world of the professional competition BBQ judge -

Arlin_MacRae
04-18-2011, 05:32 PM
Great write-up Arlin! Welcome to the ranks of judging scum (this IS the pot welcoming in another black kettle)!

You'd said:
> one rib was the best I'd EVER had.

This is what ticks me off more than anything when I see folks write about competition not being REAL barbecue. Until you've had the delight of judging, lets not cast that stone. I do a darned fine rib and every once in a while really hit it outa the park. However, even as good as mine have been now & again, the absolute best barbecue I've ever had, EVER, was judging one time, judging Gwatney's ribs that day. WOW.

I'm really glad you were the good/concerned judge. Unfortunately there are those who just judge a little willy-nilly without real concern as to the consequences, and either give away 9's or score 6's for anything not just perfect in their eye. Either one isn't fair. I've always preferred the critical but consistent and fair one (judge).

I'm a backyard Q'er 95% of the time. I put time, effort, and money into making great tasting food for family and friends. Like you, every once in while I'll hit one out of the park and someone tells me I should compete with that meat. Yeah, if I could only do the same with the other meats whenever I wanted to. Ha. It's all BBQ. These cooks aren't prima donnas with a factory that churns out perfect Q every time. They're artists. Masters. I've seen 'em work. I've helped 'em work. These ladies & gents pour countless hours and dollars into their recipes, their pits, practice, travel, etc., etc. They're so far above me that I'm lucky to even taste their food once in my life. (judging helps!) I will do everything I can to be the best judge they've ever given one or two bites to. I'll do my best to leave my preconceived notions of what BBQ should look like or taste like at HOME. Wings instead of thighs being turned in is being discussed in another thread. Is it pleasing to the ete? Is it great in my mouth, tasty and tender? Then why should I care what legal portion is in the box? Actually, I had some sliced pork last weekend that blew me away. It was 'outside the box' for me, but I gave it high marks because it did everything it was supposed to to my eye and mouth. How can someone think otherwise, I have to ask. Maybe there should be a mandatory retirement 'age' of judges so they don't get set in their ways. LOL

To the stomach management thing: It's tough to explain to new/rookie teams that they have to hit it right in 1 or 2 bites. Consistently they think you're going to be eating a whole chicken piece. Any judge with more than 2 competitions knows to try to hit it on that initial bite. I spend a good bit of time testing tenderness with my fangerz and smelling it to get that flavor profile thoroughly in before actually taking the bite. With any luck that 2nd bite will be the "is it a 7 or 8" bite. Most 9's stand out (IMHO). Most 6's and below stand out too. 3rd bite, for me, is rare, and usually is only because it's SOOOO darned good I'll just have to hit that again. :-) And so goes the TUMS. To me, the toughest table (It'll happen if you judge enough) is the one where you get 5 entries who could all be in the top 5 in the competition. It can be very tough to tell the 8 from the 9.... In MBN that table will be the difference in one of them making it to finals and the others not, OR WORSE none of them making it to finals because the judges split on which one was best. Judging, if you're really concerned, can be a real ***** sometimes...
This is something that will take experience and nothing else, IMO. I've got to learn to 'read' the meat quickly, accurately, and without eating the whole thing before I've got a number in my head! Until then...where's the vomitorium? :becky: But I don't think I'll ever keep myself from taking the extra bite of something awesome. I'm a guy who loves good Q and I'm weak and powerless before an awesome rib, shred of pork, bite of chicken, or hunk of brisket. I'm doomed. UNLESS...I start dragging a cooler around. The table captain asked who wanted boxes and I resisted during the chicken then I thought, "Jean needs to try this. And this. And this." Dang it. Now HER leftovers box was huge so I didn't feel so bad! :laugh:

Awesome write up!

First thing I'd like to share with you is . . . don't ever - NEVER - get in a rush. It's easy to feel the urge to rush with so much activity around you - but just don't do it. Take as much time as you need because, as you found out, there's really plenty of time between categories. I am almost always the last to finish at the table - no matter where I go. And nobody ever says a word about it. And on appearance, same deal. Take all the time you need. Most judges give the table captain a little head nod when they have had enough time and the TC is always happy to give you the time you need. [ Although I can imagine there would be some limits to this. :-) ] The score you give is a very important decision and it should not come at the expense of a rush decision.
If that's how much time you need to come to a fair conclusion, then by all means take it.

Then, if you feel more knowledgeable after one judging experience, just wait until you've finished ten contests. I believe that a judge should be considered a rookie until at least ten are under their belt (so to speak). And don't do table captain duty too early. Spend at least ten contests learning. Then, when you do table captain, you will be able to better help the other judges at your table if they need it.
That's my plan, exactly. I'm not going to let anyone rush me. If I get faster it'll only be because I know more about what I'm doing! Table captain isn't even on the horizon for me. I've read the instructions and I now know what a good one does. Until I can help the new judge as I was helped, I'm staying at the far side of the table!


I use the crackers and water between each sample. I only eat a half a cracker and take just a small sip of water. By the end of 24 samples (or so) I am packed - but usually not entirely miserable. The full stomach is also helped by chewing gum on the way home.

Another time that I take as long as I need is when the sample containers are being passed around. I take the time to wipe my fingers with a wet and dry towel between removing the sample to my plate so that I avoid cross-contaminating the flavors of the entries with each other's sauces, etc.
Bottom line - don't rush through anything.

Another thought - you WILL see a lot of the same folks at each contest. There are even a few couples that travel far and wide to judge (as you saw). That Susan lady is most likely Susan Goyette. She and her husband John are some of the greatest people you'd ever want to meet . . . and they are one of the couples that travel all over to judge.

I am glad you two had fun - and there's a lot more fun (and heartbreak) to come in your judging experience.

Welcome to the world of the professional competition BBQ judge -
My table captain had me keep a wet paper towel handy for just that reason, and man did it work. I changed it out each round, especially after chicken. That was unbelievably messy! :)

Yep, Susan Goyette. What a great gal. She was fun, helpful, and man did she flat-out judge that meat. We talked after every round and I want to be just like her. Minus the orange hair. :-D

You know what I wish a judge knew? Just who it was I gave those triple 9's too. Afterwards, of course. I sure don't need it while I judge - or want it! - but it'd be nice to know if I contributed to the GC. Oh well, you just can't have it all, can you?

Thanks much again for all the help here!!

Arlin

Robert
04-21-2011, 10:07 AM
Going in, both Jean and I were nervous. We were afraid that we'd hurt a team by judging them too low or by judging another team too high. Personally, I didn't worry a LOT about going too low, because the lowest score is tossed out. I was more worried about awarding a 9, then finding the next entry should have been a ten, but couldn't be. Know what I mean? Now I've ranked both of them the same when clearly the sample I had second should have been the only 9. I was also worried about taking too long. I found out at CBJ class that I seemed to need more time than the average bear to really look at a box to nail the appearance score in my mind. I also had no practical experience at all when it came to judging six entries within the set time limit.

I reigned myself in when it came to awarding nines on appearance, taste, and tenderness, and it worked. I think I gave two perfect 999's (but several were close), and the table captain let me know my numbers were right in line with the other five judges. Did I go further down the scale? Oh you bet. Like I said earlier, I wasn't afraid of being the lowest, 'cause mine would get tossed. I gave out plenty of 8's, some 7's, and one or two 6's. Even one 5. Kiss of death, that 5? Maybe. I agonized over it and still marked it that way. The entry was pretty ugh. Nothing was inedible during the session, although I heard stories of 2's being given. Thankfully I didn't have to even think of going that low!

Arlin,

I have bolded one sentence. Please refer to it. Let's just say you tasted the first entry and said, man this is pretty good. 8 or could be a 9. No I better wait, because the next entry might be a 9. Really??? Really? I hope you don't make this mistake again. If it is a 9 score it so. If not don't What if all of the rest of the entries are not up to par. Did you just screw over the first entry? Resisted giving a 9 just in case something better comes along. Is that comparing or hoping to compare one against another. Be honest to yourself and judge each entry on it's own merits. You'd like to know how the 999 turned out and if you helped them get a GC. Would you like to know how the 8 that might of been a 9 but you held back, turned out and know if you kept them from a GC? Did you do this on the first entry in every category? I hope not. Granted, not every entry is going to be great, but when in doubt, are you going to grade up or down? Do you want to be the East German judge or labeled as the rogue judge?

I have had different judges tell me a baby back rib will always outscore a spare, thighs over breast, pulled pork over sliced. I am always amazed that people have such closed minds when it comes to judging.

Sorry for the rant

Lake Dogs
04-21-2011, 11:33 AM
Robert, it's a good point. I've been on an MBN table (they allow 10's) where we had
3 entries get (and I gave) straight 10's, and another entry get one 9 and all 10's. Each were judged on their own merits, thankfully.

Sawdustguy
04-21-2011, 03:48 PM
Arlin,

I think that even though you are a rookie judge, you set an example for what an excellent CBJ should be. If all judges followed your example I doubt you would hear any criticism about judging. Keep doing what you are doing and posting about it and just maybe you can start a trend. Thanks for sharing your experience.

QansasjayhawQ
04-21-2011, 04:02 PM
I have had different judges tell me a baby back rib will always outscore a spare, thighs over breast, pulled pork over sliced. I am always amazed that people have such closed minds when it comes to judging.
I have had different judges tell me a baby back rib will always outscore a spare, thighs over breast, pulled pork over sliced. I am always amazed that people have such closed minds when it comes to judging.
Sounds like rookie judges to me -

I would say that, if the people with those preconceived notions are KCBS certified judges that they need to take the judging class again. There's no way an experienced certified judge would make that statement because we read the rules and do our best to apply them fairly and consistently. Each of those styles of meat are legal entries and should each be judged on their own merits.

At least I can tell you that not all judges have that problem . . .

Arlin_MacRae
04-21-2011, 05:49 PM
I have bolded one sentence. Please refer to it. Let's just say you tasted the first entry and said, man this is pretty good. 8 or could be a 9. No I better wait, because the next entry might be a 9. Really??? Really? I hope you don't make this mistake again. If it is a 9 score it so. If not don't What if all of the rest of the entries are not up to par. Did you just screw over the first entry? Resisted giving a 9 just in case something better comes along. Is that comparing or hoping to compare one against another. Be honest to yourself and judge each entry on it's own merits. You'd like to know how the 999 turned out and if you helped them get a GC. Would you like to know how the 8 that might of been a 9 but you held back, turned out and know if you kept them from a GC? Did you do this on the first entry in every category? I hope not. Granted, not every entry is going to be great, but when in doubt, are you going to grade up or down? Do you want to be the East German judge or labeled as the rogue judge?

Sorry for the rant

It wasn't a mistake. I did the right thing because they're were better ribs that came along and giving that 'iffy' box a nine would have diluted the score for the better box. Being a rookie judge I'm still learning what a flat-out nine box is, and the only way to learn that is to see a lot of them. I wasn't sure this was a nine, so I gave it an eight. I learned more what a nine was a couple of boxes later. Someone would have gotten the eight, someone a nine. I guessed because that was all I could do. I was right.

Sorry for the correction. ;)

Arlin

Bentley
04-21-2011, 06:52 PM
If you go into every contest with the attitude you just wrote about, you are the kind of CBJ I want judging my turn-ins, even after one contest!

Fat Woody
04-22-2011, 11:53 AM
Well said, Augustus! It's good to see the view from the other side of the table, so to speak. Hope you'll keep posting about your (& Jean's) experiences as you go from rookies to seasoned vets in the judging tent. I would be very interested to see a running commentary from you'se guys as you get deeper into the judging realm.

Arlin_MacRae
04-22-2011, 12:56 PM
Well said, Augustus! It's good to see the view from the other side of the table, so to speak. Hope you'll keep posting about your (& Jean's) experiences as you go from rookies to seasoned vets in the judging tent. I would be very interested to see a running commentary from you'se guys as you get deeper into the judging realm.

Thank you, Woodrow!
I can do that. What I don't want to do is give a blow-by-blow after each comp. That could get ugly. :)