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Bigmista
02-23-2011, 04:20 PM
I just finished watching a video where Jacques Pepin deboned a whole chicken. I was wondering if you could turn in a deboned chicken in an IBCA contest.

According to the website:
Brisket: seven (7) full slices approximately 1/4 to 3/8 thick
Pork Spare Ribs: seven (7) individual cut ribs (bone-in)
Chicken 1/2 fully jointed chicken (to include a breast, wing, thigh, and drumstick, with skin on. (NO Cornish Game Hens)
Pork Pulled, sliced, or chopped ( All trays will be turned in the same, either pulled, sliced, or chopped as directed by Promoter/Head Judge)

The rule says, "fully jointed" but it doesn't say "bone-in" like the ribs.

Could I turn in a deboned half chicken? Not doing IBCA anytime soon but I was curious.

big brother smoke
02-23-2011, 04:23 PM
Go ahead, just let me know what contest you are in, so I know who I am whipping that day :laugh:

ZILLA
02-23-2011, 04:37 PM
No, that would get you DQed.

chromesporty
02-23-2011, 04:43 PM
Ya gotta have bones to be "fully jointed". My 2 cents.

chromesporty
02-23-2011, 04:45 PM
What about 2 deboned halves cut into thirds for KCBS? Think it would fit in the box?

leanza
02-23-2011, 05:55 PM
I agree, fully jointed, is fully jointed.

Carnivorous Endeavors BBQ
02-23-2011, 08:04 PM
Yes. Fully Jointed is fully jointed....well...unless you are removing the the backbone...then apparently it is still fully jointed. IBCA rep said you can remove the backbone so a 1/2 chicken can fit in the turn in box. I asked if you could remove the Breast (keel) bone and was told by IBCA you can't remove it. However, i have been corrected by many IBCA cookers on forums who tell me I am wrong and that you can remove the breast (keel) bone, that they do, and that there is no DQ for doing so. I guess if something is allowed by the head judge, it is legal that day. It's like a BBQ version of "don't ask a question that you really don't want to know the answer to".:-D:confused::-D
I am sorry if this offends anyone but I would just like equal treatment for all contestants who spend so much time, effort and money for the love of cooking in a competition. :thumb:

thillin
02-23-2011, 09:59 PM
Yes. Fully Jointed is fully jointed....well...unless you are removing the the backbone...then apparently it is still fully jointed. IBCA rep said you can remove the backbone so a 1/2 chicken can fit in the turn in box. I asked if you could remove the Breast (keel) bone and was told by IBCA you can't remove it. However, i have been corrected by many IBCA cookers on forums who tell me I am wrong and that you can remove the breast (keel) bone, that they do, and that there is no DQ for doing so. I guess if something is allowed by the head judge, it is legal that day. It's like a BBQ version of "don't ask a question that you really don't want to know the answer to".:-D:confused::-D
I am sorry if this offends anyone but I would just like equal treatment for all contestants who spend so much time, effort and money for the love of cooking in a competition. :thumb:

That's not how I read the response. Lynn said you should try to split it down the middle. (She didn't say you couldn't remove it.) What you posted did not say it was illegal.

What's not equal treatment? If you want to keep the keel, keep it. It's only half bone anyway.:cool:

Sylvie
02-23-2011, 10:03 PM
See the link to that thread:
http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=100897&highlight=ibca+chicken

Crash
02-24-2011, 04:12 AM
I haven't read the IBCA rules in a few months. As I remember it, we started out cutting a chicken in half and cooking/smoking it.

We eventully cooked a half chicken by removing the backbone and then splitting it (maybe we split it and then removed the backbone).

Who the hell knows....wish I could remember.

ZILLA
02-24-2011, 07:59 AM
The official rules are silent on this topic. Even though Lynn is in a leadership role she cannot make rules up on her own. I'm sure it will be officially clarified at the yearly meeting with the addition of a rule.

gmholler
02-24-2011, 08:29 AM
And the reason for removing the bones would be?

Would the chicken, without bones, be arranged to look the same when turned in as a chicken half with bones? (i.e. it wouldn't look so different as to be considered "marked")

Lynn H.

Carnivorous Endeavors BBQ
02-24-2011, 09:55 AM
Zilla,

You are correct in what you are saying that the rules do not specifically state this either way. Since i've read forums with IBCA cookers stating it is both ok and not ok to remove the keel bone, I emailed IBCA and asked because i don't want to do anything that is against the rules or not accepted by IBCA standards. Lynn Shivers replied to say i could not remove it and that i should cut it as close to in half as possible. I don't think she intended to make a rule as much as providing an interpretation of a rule. If she can't make an interpretation of a rule, who would be able to answer this question? She did agree that it will likely be discussed in a future meeting.

Lynn H.,

I do not believe removing the keel bone will alter the appearance of the finished 1/2 chicken in any that it would be considered marked. The only difference i see is that you won't hit a 1/2 piece of bone/cartilage when sampling the edge of the breast meat. I personally think it should be allowed as it really isn't comparable to removing the rib cage, leg bone, wing bones...etc.

gmholler
02-24-2011, 01:52 PM
I do not believe removing the keel bone will alter the appearance of the finished 1/2 chicken in any that it would be considered marked. The only difference i see is that you won't hit a 1/2 piece of bone/cartilage when sampling the edge of the breast meat. I personally think it should be allowed as it really isn't comparable to removing the rib cage, leg bone, wing bones...etc.

Clint,
I'm sorry, I don't follow. What are the pros and cons of removing the bones? Does removing JUST the keel bone change anything about the chicken significantly? And the original post mentioned "deboning", which I'm taking to mean removing ALL the bones, not just one - my question is whether or not the chicken would then be shaped so as not be a marked tray. I mean, isn't that what we're talking about?

Lynn H.

Scottie
02-24-2011, 01:59 PM
Too much sun melting your brain? I know I'd get sick of 85 and breezy every day... And No mosquitoes...

I haven't read the IBCA rules in a few months. As I remember it, we started out cutting a chicken in half and cooking/smoking it.

We eventully cooked a half chicken by removing the backbone and then splitting it (maybe we split it and then removed the backbone).

Who the hell knows....wish I could remember.

Carnivorous Endeavors BBQ
02-24-2011, 02:59 PM
Lynn,

Removing the Keel (aka Breast or Sternum) bone really only eliminate having a 1/2 cut piece of sternum bone & cartilage on the edge of the breast meat. The only real benefit that I see is that it would be easier to sample the breast meat with it being out. But it was really more of a technical question to IBCA in the beginning as to if it was allowed. Its not like the 1/2's would look any different and as you may have noticed from this forum, teams are turning them in with and without it with no issue by judges. The tutorial Thillin pointed out on the Weber Virtual Bullet site shows their method for cutting a chicken into halves. If you watch that video, you see what we've been talking about and if the back bone being removed is still fully jointed then i would think others might agree that removing the keel bone is still fully jointed. All other bones would still be intact.

gmholler
02-24-2011, 03:44 PM
I thought the original question was whether or not a deboned chicken could be turned in for an IBCA contest, no?

Lynn H.

Carnivorous Endeavors BBQ
02-24-2011, 04:13 PM
You're right. That was the original question and deboned chicken is not fully jointed. I apologize that i got off topic by replying to a post of "fully jointed is fully jointed". It is just a little frustrating that there is no clear answer from IBCA other than it might be discussed in the future. I'll just drop the subject since there is no answer. Maybe I can talk to you and Andy in Gonzales if ya'll are the head judges there.
My apologies to all!:thumb:

ElJefe
01-27-2013, 05:32 PM
I would like some clarification. Backbone in or out? Breast cartilage in or out?

RangerJ
01-27-2013, 06:04 PM
And the reason for removing the bones would be?

Would the chicken, without bones, be arranged to look the same when turned in as a chicken half with bones? (i.e. it wouldn't look so different as to be considered "marked")

Lynn H.

Of course it would be arranged the same.

As for your first question, removing the keel bones are a cooks choice as no rule says we can't. That bone is not a joint.

Swamp Donkeyz BBQ
01-27-2013, 07:30 PM
Is the rib cage considered a joint, and if so, how?

JS-TX
01-27-2013, 10:52 PM
I take the backbone and keel bone out, leave the breast cartilage in and trim back a little on the ribs so they don't stick out.

gmholler
01-28-2013, 07:51 AM
Y'all are over-analyzing this; it's not that difficult! A fully jointed half chicken is just that. What the head judge will tell you at the cooks meeting is that all the boxes will ideally look the same - the judges are told to sample the meat (for chicken, stick with white meat if they like that, dark meat if they like that) and score on that.

Backbone in or out? It's up to you - but, as the head judge will tell you, THE BOX MUST CLOSE. Period.

Come watch the judging sometime (yes, you're allowed to observe); I think you'll find the judges are more concerned about whether or not the chicken is completely cooked than what bones are or aren't there...

Lynn H.

bbq.tom
01-28-2013, 01:19 PM
What about 2 deboned halves cut into thirds for KCBS? Think it would fit in the box?

Yes, it would probably fit (depending on thickness of the garnish if any used), but why would you want to???

Definitely more difficult to cook all parts evenly than to split it up before cooking.

Plus, some judges might deduct on appearance as it would NOT all look the same. (Some can't understand the "judge the meat on it's own merits" instruction.)