4 briskets in a dera

[bittertruth]

I have been asked, by a friend of mine, (yes i do have friends) to smoke a couple of Briskets for a party for his daughters Highschool Basketball team. I am also going to include a couple of briskets for myself.
I want this to be a successful event because my friends daughter is one of the most highly recruited Highschool recruits in the country, with scholarship offers from UCONN and Tennesee to name a few.
No pressure here!
Am i setting myself up for failure including my briskets or will this not be a problem? (can the bandera handle it)
How long can the briskets stay in a cooler, properly wrapped and still be hot enough to serve?
Any other tips would be appreciated.

All Hail the Brethren!!!

[BBQchef33]

Four briskts may be tight, but you can do it. Just zigzag the briskets so the air can travel around the chamber. IMO, though, if it were me, i would just make one for myself and limit the bandera to 3 briskets and then add a half dozen fatties. :)

The briskets, once up to 190 will have enuf of a heat load to stay in the coller for 9-12 hours above 140. Gotta use a decent cooler though, none of them cheap things that loose Ice after 4 hours. After that, best bet is to start serving. I've stretched it a little by putting them in the oven on a warm(160-180) setting when they fell below 140 internal just to hold them over or give it a little more heat load to last another couple hours. Once temps climbed a little i went back to the cooler. That didnt cause any problems.

[The_Kapn]

A couple of thoughts.
Don't ask how I know this :oops:

The Dera will do just fine with 4 Briskets if you don't choke off the airflow.
If they are biggo honkers and fill the shelf, ya need to trim them down to keep the air moving.

Also, the Dera temps are higher in the bottom than at the top, especially early in the burn. This is because the meat is drawing heat from the smoke as it rises. As the meat comes up to temp, the smoke temps start equalizing from top to bottom.
So, if you want them to come out at about the same time, you will need to rotate them top to bottom a couple of times. I would rotate at least once at 3 hours or so or, better yet, every 2 hours or so to keep them cooking really even.

For holding time, If you put 4 Briskets in a cooler and they are at 190 or so, you have MANY hours till they cool below 160 or so. Some guys have gone overnight. All of the coolering time just makes the meat "Happier" and "Happier" by the hour!

If you are concerned or have them done really early--just put them in a oven at 180-200 oven temp and they will hold and get Happy just about forever!

Good luck and let us know how it comes out!!

TIM

[parrothead]

My temps were always cooler at the top than the bottom.

[The_Kapn]

My temps were always cooler at the top than the bottom.
Greg,
Here is the basis for my statement.
I run 4 digitals at all times and a 5th when needed.
#1 is always lower air temp on the lowest loaded shelf.
#4 is always upper air temp on the highest loaded shelf.
They are on constantly and monitored from light off till StudeDera is empty.
They always react the same.
Lower shelf air temp is 25 to 30 degrees lower than top after the meat is loaded.
I run Beef at the top and Pork or Poultry lower because of the temp difference. Works wonderful.
As the cook progresses, they start to equalize top to bottom.
At the end, they are basically the same top to bottom.

"That's my story and I'm sticking to it" to steal a line from a C&W song :lol: :lol:
Maybe it's a Florida Thing :lol:
TIM

[chad]

"Just last week I hung that hammock in the attic!" :twisted:

[BBQchef33]

KC is right... The hottest part of a vertical offset is just below the chimney. Same in my BYC, Temps are hotter in the middle of the vertical than on the bottom, and hottest at the top. Chicken thighs and bsicuit test proverd it.

Hot air rises.. gets stuck at the top and circualtes around(convection heat) top trying to get out the chimney.

Wortks kind of like everyone trying to get out of the subway train during rush hour.

[racer_81]

KC is right... The hottest part of a vertical offset is just below the chimney. Same in my BYC, Temps are hotter in the middle of the vertical than on the bottom, and hottest at the top. Chicken thighs and bsicuit test proverd it.

Hot air rises.. gets stuck at the top and circualtes around(convection heat) top trying to get out the chimney.

Wortks kind of like everyone trying to get out of the subway train during rush hour.

I gotta disagree here, not based on you and KC's observations, but based on physics.

The heat source is at the bottom of the vertical chamber, so unless you are somehow adding heat to the vertical chamber some other way, the hottest location has to be at the bottom where airflow enters from the firebox.

If that is not the case, then I could build a 100 ft vertical chamber and generate some really, really hot air (i.e., much, much hotter than the air coming out of the firebox) with only a Bandera sized firebox. That, of course, is a ludicrous extension, but it should illustrate my point.

Now the way the vertical firebox is loaded, and the way the baffling is implemented can modify the airflow such that there are hot spots and hotter spots and not-so-hot spots I suspect. But, the air temp has to be hottest just as it comes out of the firebox and into the vertical chamber.

Make sense?

Discussion welcome.

[The_Kapn]

KC is right... The hottest part of a vertical offset is just below the chimney. Same in my BYC, Temps are hotter in the middle of the vertical than on the bottom, and hottest at the top. Chicken thighs and bsicuit test proverd it.

Hot air rises.. gets stuck at the top and circualtes around(convection heat) top trying to get out the chimney.

Wortks kind of like everyone trying to get out of the subway train during rush hour.
Am I missing something--don't see a post from KC :lol:
If the chamber is empty- yes it is hotter at the top.
I have mapped mine several times while working on MOD's.
Took me awhile to figure out that "empty" was different than "loaded"!
But, ya load that sucker with meat, and it is hotter at the bottom till the meat comes up to temp--
"Still my story........." and apparently Greg sees the same thing :lol:
Maybe our cookers are "special" in some way :wink:

TIM

[The_Kapn]

If that is not the case, then I could build a 100 ft vertical chamber and generate some really, really hot air (i.e., much, much hotter than the air coming out of the firebox) with only a Bandera sized firebox. That, of course, is a ludicrous extension, but it should illustrate my point.
Racer,
You and I posted at the same time--
I agree with you on a long chamber.
I think that is called the "Chimney Effect" and is actually seen in fireplace chimneys. The heat level of the smoke coming out of a chimney is very much cooler than the smoke entering from the firebox. Function of time and distance in this case.
I think what we are dealing with in the Bandera though is a very short distance and a restricted exhaust port. Not enough time and distance to cool down and it is trapped a bit with only 16 sq inches of exhaust area.
So, unloaded, I agree with Phil that the top will be a bit hotter in this short area.

Also, I try not to use the first 6 inches or so above my MODed heat baffle. I get a lot of radiated heat from it. But, that is unique to my StudeDera with the sheild I use.

I have to do a test burn shortly for "yet another MOD", so I will map it out one more time with no meat in the chamber. My taylors will tell the tale for sure.

TIM

[parrothead]

Interesting. stuff. I love it. When I had my bandera, I mapped the living fark out of it. It basically comes down to the thing is a cooling tower. If anyone gets different readings, then fantastic!.

[bittertruth]

Interesting. stuff. I love it.

I agree!!
This is the kind of information and in depth analysis that is so valuable to a once a month smoker such as myself. Time constraints prevent me from cooking as much as i want to and it would take me forever to gather this much experience on my own. I thank all the contributors to this post.

[racer_81]

....after sleeping......

When the sand pan/water pan is in place, it will act as an airflow deflector, so directly above it
and relatively close to it should be a cooler spot as the hot air from the firebox moves around
it and up the sides.

That, I think, would cause higher temps at the chimney than right above the pan.

Now where's my Heat Transfer and Thermodynamics books.....from 24 years ago......

Never mind.

Reality (Phil/KC observations) always seems to negate theories.

AND - we ain't bbq'ing on paper or in theory here......

[jt]

I've mapped mine out as well and have found that the bottom rack is 10-12* hotter than at the door thermometer level which is hotter than than top shelf by about the same amount. I load the meat according to that so briskets and the like go up top and the butts & chickens stay below.

Kick had his smokebox lined with foil and get the results Phil has - hotter on the top rack.

Smokers, they're kinda like women, huh? Just when you think you get one figured out....
:roll: :shock: :D

[BBQchef33]

I aint no DR.. I just had one source for my info..

I was havin trouble using the vertical in the BYC to cook with. Was on the phone with Dave klose and in conversation i mentioned I only used the vertical as a warmer. He bitch slapped me and gave me the entire therory/reality of the thermodynamics of the BYC and other vertical cookers. Hot spot of the verticals is in the middle a distance AWAY from the heat source and just above entry from the horizontal. coldest spot is the bottom, close to the heatsource and this is caused by the effects of the heatsink, in our case the water pan) , in the BYC its the bottom left of chamber. Hottest spot is the directly below the chimney. this is why on the BYC there is an additional removable baffle between horizontal and vertical chambers.

Once i figured this out, and started experimenting, i found that the entire vertical can be used for cookin. The middle shelf can actually wreck and char a rack of ribs(which i learned the hard way). Tthe very top and right side middle spot can be used to crispy up chicken skin.


For the new members who want to map the chambers. Buy a few packages of pop-n-fresh biscuits. Scatter them around in different locations on 3 or 4 shelves. In the bandera, use 9 per shelf in a 3x3 pattern. Dont put the shelves in yet, but fire it up at 250 and when the temps level off install the shelves with the biscuits on them. Give it 20-30 minutes and then peek. You can tell by the doneness of the biscuits what your temperature variations look like withn the chamber. The charred ones are in the hotspots :). The raw ones.. wellll you get the idea.

[BigBelly]

Good luck Bittertruth. I am sure these bad boys will turn out just great!

[cayenne]

The briskets, once up to 190 will have enuf of a heat load to stay in the coller for 9-12 hours above 140.

Quick question...do you take your briskets to 190 unwrapped, and then foil and cooler them...or, are you taking to 160 in smoker, wrapping with foil and mop, taking it to 190 in the smoker, and then putting it in cooler?

Or, is this only for butts? Sorry...I'm a little confused on this with all the posts I've read on it here..

C

[Bigdog]

The later is correct. This is for brisket. For butts, you need to go higher.
Most go to 195-205. This would probably dry out most brisket, but butts have more fat inside them, so they need the higher temps if you want to pull them.

[kcquer]

C, Bigdog is right on with the temp info. As for whether to wrap before they are done is up to you. I've tried both. Recently I've been deciding during the cook. If the rub "crusts up" and is holding the moisture in like it should I don't wrap until they're ready to pull. If the rub doesn't do its thing as well I go ahead and wrap @ 160-170, return to the cooker and then pull.

[bittertruth]

I started the four briskets at about 10pm saturday night. The out side temp was about 35 degrees and no wind. I thought that i might have a problem keeping the heat up to temp, but the bandera kept up with no problem to start. using a combination of Oak and Mesquite with a bed of lump i was up to temp quickly and everything was going ok for about 8 hrs. I usually stop smoking after about 8 hrs when doing brisket and use only lump for the rest of the cook, but dawn brought a little wind and i was losing temp and started to run short of lump charcoal as i miscalculated how much i would need. My options were to continue using wood to keep the heat up and risk the brisket being to "smokey" for the people i was cooking for, or remove the briskets to the oven for the remaining cook time. I also had to think about when the briskets had to be ready. The decision was made for me by the steady rain/drizzle that was then coming down making it a bit cold and miserable. Into the oven @200 degrees for the rest of the cook time.
After about five more hours of cook time in the oven i delivered the briskets to the happy folks that would be devouring them. i did not stick around to slice or to get any feedback, but thay did call me this mourning and told me they were great and had a couple of people that wanted me to cook briskets for them for Christmas. My Brisket was Good by my standards but could have been a little more tender. Good bark and flavor.

thanks to the brotherhood for all the info and help.

[Arlin_MacRae]

Congrats on a successful big cook!

[tommykendall]

I started the four briskets


Only 4 briskets? You call that brethren? :wink: Great job...