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Muzzlebrake
02-13-2011, 08:01 PM
is there a bracket posted for zone 5 anywhere?

only one I have seen is for Pittsburgh (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=100575&page=28)

I think that they will make all 3 levels world class events.

I agree, I think that all 3 rounds will be run exceptionaly well and will no be on par with any top flight event. I think that there is a slight chance that during the first two rounds you could get a team that might be new and in in over thier head and is there due to luck, but that chance is small. After that during the 3rd round it is nearly impossible and I think that the teams in the final will be on par with the best teams anywhere including the Royal, Jack or KCBS top 25

bbally
02-13-2011, 08:05 PM
I also don't think that is was a bandwidth race in any way, shape or form. I didnt follow the other regions but in region 5, one of the contests filled the first day but the other 2 didn't.

I agree with you in the context of this year.....

But if this goes off they way I think it will.... that is very well received very publicized events with excellent competitions and a lot of fun....

Then IMO there will be increased interest next year for the entries that are available.

My understanding of the American Royal (with the exception of the open class) is that it is already a qualified list by being invitation only? Or at least having to place in a qualifying event, state, event with over 50 entries, etc.? Or can you just enter the invitational online if you have the money?

I see what you are saying, but I think the magic that makes some of these contest rise above the rest, is the field of competitors.

bbally
02-13-2011, 08:08 PM
After that during the 3rd round it is nearly impossible and I think that the teams in the final will be on par with the best teams anywhere including the Royal, Jack or KCBS top 25

I agee with this... the format definately lends itself to the regionals and the final being world class for sure. And from the looks of the entries in each local contest I believe the contests will be seriously competitive.

dmprantz
02-13-2011, 10:41 PM
Has any one paid attention to how the judging is gonna work on this? It looks like applications for that are closed too, so I just don't know:(

One of the things that bugs me about yop grade BBQ comps is that you get some of the most prestigeous competitions with the "best" teams, and then you get celebrity judges who don't know a thing about BBQ. Last year at MIM, one of the final table judges was a local weather-caster and wrestling show host. No BBQ super-judge in my opinion. When I got my CBJ in Lynchburg last year, I was at a table with a journalist of sorts who didn't know BBQ, but was gonna be judging the Jack the following day, so getting his CBJ then. I'm sure you all know the tale.

Call me crazy, but for these big events bragging about the best teams and the biggest prizes, shouldn't we expect the best judges too? Maybe an event with only master judges? Maybe only judges who have judged five comps within the past year? I dunno, but I just think that consistent judging is most important at these types of events.

Something else, I'd like to see the judges follow the same path as the teams here. Maybe have the KCBS take a page from the NFL's playbook? The last weekend of the playoffs, and at the Superbowl, the officials are made up of "super" or "all-star" crews. Those individuals that have the best records move on to the next round. I would like to see that only judges in the local qualifiers can be judges in a regional (preferrably the same region), and only regional judges can be those in Bentonville, always giving priority to master and experienced judges. Any one know if that's the plan? Any one thank that's a bad idea?

Of course, for this to be most effective, some one should keep track of judges and exclude those who are consitantly out of the norm, but that's a whole different can of worms. NFL officials with a high number or calls overturned on replay don't get invited to the playoffs, so I just don't see why CBJs can have similar requirements for high profile events.

dmp

Scottie
02-13-2011, 10:59 PM
So have you judged yet with your new CBJ? Or just a lot of opinions on what kind of judges we should have. Honestly, I'd rather have a 'celebrity' judge than a CBJ with an attitude.. as a cook I could care less. You still have to have the best BBQ for the day.

tmcmaster
02-14-2011, 06:54 AM
To preface...I am 94.8% accurate in regards to BBQ odds.

But first...
If you truly can't compete with your "team" because of geographic or logistical reasons...then I have no issues with this at all. I cook with a team 2-3 times a year, but am separated by 1000 miles now. I also cook about 5-6 times a year by myself. They will be competing in a region and so will I. I'm not going to miss out on this because of logistics. I wish them the best of luck, but I also hope that I wear them out, if we get there!

Can't worry about others too much...it takes too much time. To be honest...with all the good cooks out there...it would take the elite to get to the finals with more than 2 teams. If they can do that and win...job well done. At the end of the day...they would have been able to get into an event or two possibly if they don't fill up anyways.

In soccer...the last of the great sports, they say "Advantage: Play On"!

With that being said...here is Region 5 - Pittsburghs Power Poll
1. I-Que
2. I Smell Smoke !!!
3. CHIX, SWINE & BOVINE Bbq.
4. 3-Eyz BBQ
5. Jolly Scholar
6. RegalBBQ
7. Christmas City BBQ
8. zbq
9. Swamp Pit BBQ
10 .ponderosa bbq
11. TNT Dynamite BBQ
12. Getta Que
13. redvalley BBQ
14. White Dog BBQ
15. Blue Diamond Que

As always...:-D:-D:-Dso I don't get any death threats.

I don't even rate top 15? Ouch. Watch out for the upset, then!!!:becky:

ique
02-14-2011, 08:23 AM
I was referring to Jorge's post about hitting the correct tables through three competitions, which IMO is a real problem, especially given the amount of newbie judges KCBS cranks out each month.............


With only 30 teams in a contest the idea of hitting the correct table is really diminished. There will only be 5 tables. If the reps rotate teams to different tables like they should everyone is basically landing on the same tables. One of the reasons this format seems like a better way to determine a national champion as opposed to the mega events with 100+ teams where luck plays in quite a bit more.

dmprantz
02-14-2011, 08:42 AM
I'd rather have a 'celebrity' judge than a CBJ with an attitude.

Are you suggesting that all experienced judges have attitudes, or are you trying to put words in my mouth? Is there some other meaning behind this?

dmp

Jorge
02-14-2011, 08:57 AM
Are you suggesting that all experienced judges have attitudes, or are you trying to put words in my mouth? Is there some other meaning behind this?

dmp

I can't speak for Scottie, but I don't have a problem stating that I believe that there ARE some self-anointed "Super Judges". Once upon a time there was a judge that posted here, and elsewhere, that wasn't shy about sharing his opinions about what BBQ should be as well as examples of how he judged accordingly.

At the end of the day, a cook has to turn in the best product possible and then hope for the best. I'll take a judge off the street that will judge the entry as presented, over a Super Judge that is looking for the right amount of ingredient X in flavor profile Y.

Jorge
02-14-2011, 09:04 AM
With only 30 teams in a contest the idea of hitting the correct table is really diminished. There will only be 5 tables. If the reps rotate teams to different tables like they should everyone is basically landing on the same tables. One of the reasons this format seems like a better way to determine a national champion as opposed to the mega events with 100+ teams where luck plays in quite a bit more.

Exactly. Beyond that, if a team advances, consistency becomes a larger factor.

Sometimes, hitting the right table can depend on who else lands on the table. If your ribs are sampled after the guy that serves creosote encrusted ribs....it's probably going to be a bad day. As teams advance in this series the likelihood of that happening should diminish in theory.

YankeeBBQ
02-14-2011, 09:08 AM
Time, indeed, will tell.....

Of interest to me is how the contest will evolve? I mean the first year the rush to get in and sign up fast makes sense.......

But have they thought about how sign up will work next year?

Does the top half of the finishers (15 teams) have the right to return? And the other 15 go for the internet speed sign up deal?

Or is it always going to be a crap shoot? While the crap shoot works the first year for the buzz it created.........

The follow on years decide if the event continues on as a premier event or is it always a random smattering of people who are lucky enough to get in prior to the 30 team cut off.

If latter is the case I don't see if ever moving up to compete with The Royal or The Jack.... but if they are careful and invite the top half back and keep the dark horse enter style of the random, it could turn out to be a pretty cool long term run.

They could always add more local qualifying events if the interest grows. Then instead of taking the top 10 for the regional they could reduce it to the top 8 or 5 or however many local qualifiers they have to fill the regional field.

dmprantz
02-14-2011, 09:15 AM
I believe that there ARE some self-anointed "Super Judges"

I agree that the level of attitude you are suggesting is to be avoided, but that's true of new and experienced judges. I just don't see why it has to be an either/or proposition. Unless you believe that all experienced judges are A-holes, then why not try to get more of them for high dollar events? You're just as likely to get some new guy who gives every one 9s because he doesn't know the subtleties of what he's doing or thinks it should taste like his and be pulled so he gives 6's.

Some people talk a lot about judging inconsistancies and hitting "the right tables," so wouldn't it eliminate some of that to not have green judges? If you don't think so, that's fine. A lot of pple also mention these newer high dollar events and how it changes things. Shouldn't it change judging too? Still, that was only half the thought, the other was to use the same judging pool for all rounds.

dmp

Jorge
02-14-2011, 09:20 AM
Time, indeed, will tell.....

Of interest to me is how the contest will evolve? I mean the first year the rush to get in and sign up fast makes sense.......

But have they thought about how sign up will work next year?

Does the top half of the finishers (15 teams) have the right to return? And the other 15 go for the internet speed sign up deal?

Or is it always going to be a crap shoot? While the crap shoot works the first year for the buzz it created.........

The follow on years decide if the event continues on as a premier event or is it always a random smattering of people who are lucky enough to get in prior to the 30 team cut off.

If latter is the case I don't see if ever moving up to compete with The Royal or The Jack.... but if they are careful and invite the top half back and keep the dark horse enter style of the random, it could turn out to be a pretty cool long term run.

I guess I'm just looking at this in a different way. What this series is selling is equal opportunity for a crack at some money and prestige if a team is willing and able to put three good cooks together in succession. You only have to be "The Best" on the final day out of three, yet be in the conversation for all three.

A team that only cooks 4-5 times a year normally, has the opportunity to compete with those that will do 20-30 events.

This series is a completely different animal by design. Everybody starts the series on equal footing. Why eliminate one of the most unique components, that has the potential to make the series special, in year two to emulate existing contests that are exclusive by rule.

Jeff Hughes
02-14-2011, 09:43 AM
I guess I'm just looking at this in a different way. What this series is selling is equal opportunity for a crack at some money and prestige if a team is willing and able to put three good cooks together in succession. You only have to be "The Best" on the final day out of three, yet be in the conversation for all three.

A team that only cooks 4-5 times a year normally, has the opportunity to compete with those that will do 20-30 events.

This series is a completely different animal by design. Everybody starts the series on equal footing. Why eliminate one of the most unique components, that has the potential to make the series special, in year two to emulate existing contests that are exclusive by rule.

I agree Jorge. I can't make the comps this year, and sure want a shot in the future...

roksmith
02-14-2011, 10:14 AM
You can consider this.. the US Open of BBQ.
Anybody can enter. One good day can't win it, but one bad day will end it for you.
I like the fact that every team starts the event on even footing and even if you only cook one event (3 really) per year.. you've got a chance to be a national champion.

bbally
02-14-2011, 10:37 AM
I guess I'm just looking at this in a different way. What this series is selling is equal opportunity for a crack at some money and prestige if a team is willing and able to put three good cooks together in succession. You only have to be "The Best" on the final day out of three, yet be in the conversation for all three.

A team that only cooks 4-5 times a year normally, has the opportunity to compete with those that will do 20-30 events.

This series is a completely different animal by design. Everybody starts the series on equal footing. Why eliminate one of the most unique components, that has the potential to make the series special, in year two to emulate existing contests that are exclusive by rule.

Interesting, I had not thought of it that way... but you are correct in it does make it kind of interesting how everyone starts out on the same plain and then you live or die by the cooking.

I see how you are thinking... it certainly makes it different and that might be the ticket for it to stay popular. Combine that with YankeeBBQ thinking of adding more locals and it could get really large.

Jorge
02-14-2011, 11:11 AM
I agree that the level of attitude you are suggesting is to be avoided, but that's true of new and experienced judges. I just don't see why it has to be an either/or proposition. Unless you believe that all experienced judges are A-holes, then why not try to get more of them for high dollar events? You're just as likely to get some new guy who gives every one 9s because he doesn't know the subtleties of what he's doing or thinks it should taste like his and be pulled so he gives 6's.

Some people talk a lot about judging inconsistancies and hitting "the right tables," so wouldn't it eliminate some of that to not have green judges? If you don't think so, that's fine. A lot of pple also mention these newer high dollar events and how it changes things. Shouldn't it change judging too? Still, that was only half the thought, the other was to use the same judging pool for all rounds.

dmp

OK, you put a price on what it would cost for 30 judges to give up 26 weekends per year, as well as transport, house, and feed them. Then sort out what you will do about the additional 20 judges you will need in Bentonville.

When you finish that, feel free to develop the software to track judges and then verify that it is statistically sound.

I understand what you are asking for, and don't disagree with it in principle. I just don't think that it's realistic.

dmprantz
02-14-2011, 11:32 AM
OK, you put a price on what it would cost for 30 judges to give up 26 weekends per year, as well as transport, house, and feed them. Then sort out what you will do about the additional 20 judges you will need in Bentonville.

Slight misunderstanding: My thought would be that for these events, each of the 20 local contests use local judges, giving a pool of 60-150 judges per region, or 600 total. Then, the 30 judges needed for a region's qualifier will draw from that pool of 60-150 regional judges, resulting in a pool of 150 total regional judges. From those 150, the Bentonville judges will be selected.

Obviously there would be logistical issues to work through. It may not be something that is possible or easy, but with as much money as we talk about, why not spend a little bit on the judging pool to ensure the most accurate results? Maybe no one else cares about have good judges. Let's just get rid of the whole judge certification process while we're at it and ask random ppl off the street.</sarcasm>

When you finish that, feel free to develop the software to track judges and then verify that it is statistically sound.

I should probably get back to that. I put it on hold for a while to find the right tools, and think I have most of them. Still not happy with Silverlight though. May have to use WPF instead. Have I mentioned that I write statistical analysis software used to detect outliers and ideal candidates?

dmp

Smoke'n Ice
02-14-2011, 11:47 AM
Let's just get rid of the whole judge certification process while we're at it and ask random ppl off the street.</sarcasm>

dmp

You might want to consider engaging brain prior to posting or figure out who peed in your cheerios.

In TEXAS all judging is done by people off the street for IBCA/Lone Star/Gulf Coast, etc. That is an awfully lot of toes that you be treading on.

I think that your posts are the most negative I have ever seen on the site.

I believe in constructive criticism but also add the caveat that you should present a solution to the perceived problem.

Mods. I apologize and delete this post if you wish. Thank You
Mack Yarbrough
Smoke'n Ice
Plano, TX

ique
02-14-2011, 11:52 AM
Combine that with YankeeBBQ thinking of adding more locals and it could get really large.

Either more locals or an additional round if more teams want to play next year

Jorge
02-14-2011, 11:58 AM
You might want to consider engaging brain prior to posting or figure out who peed in your cheerios.

In TEXAS all judging is done by people off the street for IBCA/Lone Star/Gulf Coast, etc. That is an awfully lot of toes that you be treading on.

I think that your posts are the most negative I have ever seen on the site.

I believe in constructive criticism but also add the caveat that you should present a solution to the perceived problem.

Mods. I apologize and delete this post if you wish. Thank You
Mack Yarbrough
Smoke'n Ice
Plano, TX

Mack, he didn't mean that the way your read it.

I've met him, and exchanged a few PMs. We both write computer code, and as a result I understand his point.

The sarcasm was to make a point, and not call anyone out.

Relax big guy:-P:becky:

dmprantz
02-14-2011, 12:36 PM
You might want to consider engaging brain prior to posting or figure out who peed in your cheerios.

In TEXAS all judging is done by people off the street for IBCA/Lone Star/Gulf Coast, etc. That is an awfully lot of toes that you be treading on.

I think that your posts are the most negative I have ever seen on the site.

I believe in constructive criticism but also add the caveat that you should present a solution to the perceived problem.


As Jorge said, I didn't mean to insult any one by my post - and I skipped Cheerios this morning anyway. Biscuits n Gravy for me! :)

No offense to Texas, but we are discussing a KCBS series here, so my comments were and continue to be about that organization specifically.

There are a few issues, one I don't like to half-ass things. If KCBS is going to go through the trouble of certifying judges and have teams work really, really, really hard to get minutae correct that judges look for, I think the society and contest organizers owe it to the judges to make certification mean something. My sarcasm wasn't meant to demean uncertified judges but to say let's work on getting "good" judges for big competitions, and if we're gonna certify them, let's make the certification mean something.

Another thing, and I'm sorry if you're going to feel the brunt of this, but it's been rough couple of weeks for me here on the Brethren. I've gotten to read some pretty pious comments about meat cuts, and threats of bringing scales to competitions, all ready to call people cheaters, and another thread where people have been flat out mean and rude, calling people cheaters without any evidence. Of course, these are the same people who then turn around and say "Fine, I'll beat you anyway..."

I consider myself an essentially good person. I may not be liked by every one, but I have morals and do my best to be good. I won't sit by and let people get bad-mouthed if I can help it, so I expected the insults to stop. What I got in return were threats of physical violence against me by one person, and another who tried to yell at me in a public forum repeatedly until he got the thread locked, and then proceeded to PM me and tell me that I was forbidden from ever responding to him, because I guess he's the real boss of this place. And it's not like these are isolated incidents either.

Maybe I should just leave the Brethren. who knows? Maybe I should just stay out of the Competition forum. I am trying to just avoid certain people. I love BBQ, and I love BBQ competitions. My family and friends love me, and the people I know from comps in my area don't tell me I'm overly negative. I wish people the best, and I think it would be nice if I could ask questions and voice opinions without the threats and insults coming back at me. Have I just tainted opinions too much already? Perhaps.

Okay, I'm rambling. Sorry for that. I am a bit wordy in my posts. Mods, if this brings up things that are supposed to be left out of the thread, please edit as you feel necessary...

dmp

Oh yeah, and part of the problem is when I do propose solutions as you suggest it seams like I get ridiculed for wanting to change things too much. Didn't I propose a solution where we use the same judging pool last night? Didn't some one respond by suggesting I shouldn't have opinions on judging? You can't always come up with solutions immediately. Some times identifying the problem is the start, and you can discuss solutions. Or some times you just aren't allowedto say anything I guess.....

Jorge
02-14-2011, 12:43 PM
Best of luck to all. I'm just going to look forward to the event!:doh::becky::becky::becky:

Scottie
02-14-2011, 01:16 PM
What is the definition of a good judge? I'm not talking if we could've done this or that. Just what is a good judge for this series? All master judges? A new celebrity judge? A new CBJ? What about when Sam's want to control all the judges? Should we all quit as cooks? Hell no, we will roll the dice and cook our best BBQ.

Smokedelic
02-14-2011, 04:06 PM
What is the definition of a good judge? I'm not talking if we could've done this or that. Just what is a good judge for this series? All master judges? A new celebrity judge? A new CBJ? What about when Sam's want to control all the judges? Should we all quit as cooks? Hell no, we will roll the dice and cook our best BBQ.
...and can someone explain the minutiae we are trying hard to get correct that judges are looking for? I've only cooked competitively for 6 yrs., maybe 90-100 contests, and with only a fair amount of success, and I still have no idea what judges are looking for.

If some could explain to us cooks what the judges are looking for, and then explain it to the judges as well, I think our "judging issues" would be resolved.:thumb:

Diva Q
02-14-2011, 04:56 PM
http://www.facebook.com/notes/the-kansas-city-barbeque-society/sams-club-bbq-series-team-update/10150098202992710

KCBS Sam's Club Second registration details are now posted.

G$
02-14-2011, 05:32 PM
Seems like a logical decision:


the KCBS board of directors decided that teams on the current waiting lists would be given an opportunity to switch their registrations to any open slots at another contest. At the close of the first period, there were about 65 teams on the waiting lists, and they had entered the system correctly during that open time frame, but were simply unable to get an open slot because of the one-team, one-entry rule.

Itís expected that some of these teams will decide to compete at another location. But KCBS also expects that some of them will stay in their waiting positions as well.

Once all of the waiting teams have indicated what their intentions are, KCBS will announce the remaining number of slots that will be open during the Second Open Registration period. That announcement should occur no later than Friday, Feb 18.

Ford
02-14-2011, 05:38 PM
You can consider this.. the US Open of BBQ.
Anybody can enter. One good day can't win it, but one bad day will end it for you.
I like the fact that every team starts the event on even footing and even if you only cook one event (3 really) per year.. you've got a chance to be a national champion.
How about having a 5 day weekend and have 4 rounds and take the total score of all 4 rounds to determine the champion. After day 2 cut the field in half and let the rest go to the 3rd and 4th round. Lets see who can do back to back to back to back and come out on top. And have the same pool of judges for the entire thing as well with a draw to get into the 3rd round to judge.

Now that would be a contest that would test even the best. Some folks may be able to cook most weekends but can they do 4 straight days. Some people can do 7 day vending events cooking every day.

Mods: If you want to start a new thread with this go ahead.

roksmith
02-14-2011, 06:25 PM
Sounds like a hoot!! But I sure wouldn't want to bring my old stick burner for that one. One night with no sleep is one thing.....

Neat concept though.

bigdogphin
02-14-2011, 06:33 PM
You can consider this.. the US Open of BBQ.
Anybody can enter. One good day can't win it, but one bad day will end it for you.
I like the fact that every team starts the event on even footing and even if you only cook one event (3 really) per year.. you've got a chance to be a national champion.

I would consider this the US Open of BBQ if some parts of the country were not left out. Teams shouldn't have to drive 2 days for a local qualifier. This is new and a nice start but by no means perfect or all inclusive.

Scottie
02-14-2011, 06:52 PM
Some of us work Ford and wouldn't be able to commit for 5 days. Especially if my girls are in school I wouldn't be able to make it.. bad enough that I had to miss out on last years Invitational because I didn't have have 10 contests in by end of June. So my vote is leave it alone and then critique

Vince RnQ
02-14-2011, 07:06 PM
Seems like a logical decision:

I agree. Some may not want to travel and prefer to stay waitlisted but it gives those already waitlisted a chance to switch before all the slots are taken.

Nice call.

Jorge
02-14-2011, 07:29 PM
How about having a 5 day weekend and have 4 rounds and take the total score of all 4 rounds to determine the champion. After day 2 cut the field in half and let the rest go to the 3rd and 4th round. Lets see who can do back to back to back to back and come out on top. And have the same pool of judges for the entire thing as well with a draw to get into the 3rd round to judge.

Now that would be a contest that would test even the best. Some folks may be able to cook most weekends but can they do 4 straight days. Some people can do 7 day vending events cooking every day.

Mods: If you want to start a new thread with this go ahead.

Would you have done that when you still cooked on that big offset?

What you are proposing is far from fair for those that A) can't take the time away from work or family. B) Don't have a pellet cooker. C) don't have a large enough team to deal with the sleep deprivation.

If you want to test your limits, I suggest a triathlon or something similar. What you suggest has little if anything to do with BBQ.

U2CANQUE
02-14-2011, 07:45 PM
Would you have done that when you still cooked on that big offset?

What you are proposing is far from fair for those that A) can't take the time away from work or family. B) Don't have a pellet cooker. C) don't have a large enough team to deal with the sleep deprivation.

If you want to test your limits, I suggest a triathlon or something similar. What you suggest has little if anything to do with BBQ.

Amen, already I have to help make flower beds, and all other outside tasks that are assigned by SOMEONES spouse, and not mine :becky:, but, none-the-less, the task at hand will be a challenge, and one that I hope to carry all the way to the finals.........:clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2:

tmcmaster
02-14-2011, 07:49 PM
I can't wait to get my stick burning beast out and up against the 'big boys' in Pittsburgh... This is a great start to what will probably turn into a much bigger, broader and better series going forward!!!

Ford
02-14-2011, 08:50 PM
Some of us work Ford and wouldn't be able to commit for 5 days. Especially if my girls are in school I wouldn't be able to make it.. bad enough that I had to miss out on last years Invitational because I didn't have have 10 contests in by end of June. So my vote is leave it alone and then critique
don't want to change the SAMS format. I think what they are doing is great. Was thinking of a new KCBS venture.

As to too much time, we'll you are right it's a commitment. But then I'd never do it alone if I had a stick burner. Would team with 2 or 3 others. With FE's I could do it with just runners and getting cat naps but it would be a challenge.

Jeff_in_KC
02-14-2011, 10:49 PM
Are you suggesting that all experienced judges have attitudes, or are you trying to put words in my mouth? Is there some other meaning behind this?

dmp

I'd prefer a celebrity judge who has at least been educated on KCBS judging as opposed to a newly certified judge. In general, newly certified judges score lower as they look for reasons to ding the cooks. Seasoned CBJs typically look for the best qualities in the samples they judge.

Jeff_in_KC
02-14-2011, 10:57 PM
Back to back to back to back?? Hell, I'm a zombie after back to back days. I think there'd be a few accidents heading home after a gruelling event like this.

Crash
02-15-2011, 12:21 AM
I guess I'm just looking at this in a different way. What this series is selling is equal opportunity for a crack at some money and prestige if a team is willing and able to put three good cooks together in succession. You only have to be "The Best" on the final day out of three, yet be in the conversation for all three.

A team that only cooks 4-5 times a year normally, has the opportunity to compete with those that will do 20-30 events.

This series is a completely different animal by design. Everybody starts the series on equal footing. Why eliminate one of the most unique components, that has the potential to make the series special, in year two to emulate existing contests that are exclusive by rule.
Well said. Due to a geographic relocation it is virtually impossible for us to compete at any KCBS contest this year. However, a few years down the road might be a different story.

Big D BBQ
02-15-2011, 11:22 AM
I just read through the rules and I noticed that absolutely no alcohol is allowed on the WalMart / Sams Club premises.

Maybe its just me, but part of the reason I started to BBQ because it was something I could do WHILE I consumed a couple adult beverages.

Is this standard or just for this series??

Just curious.

Ford
02-15-2011, 11:35 AM
I just read through the rules and I noticed that absolutely no alcohol is allowed on the WalMart / Sams Club premises.

Maybe its just me, but part of the reason I started to BBQ because it was something I could do WHILE I consumed a couple adult beverages.

Is this standard or just for this series??

Just curious.
Many events say no alcohol but as long as you are discrete and don't leave booze bottles on tables or carry around a beer can you are OK. There are occasional events that actually restrict alcohol. As this is a SAMS workplace there may be a restriction and it may be that they will enforce the rule. Remember it is a parking lot for the store and is public property and the police can enforce laws and in many States it's against the law to drink in public or on public property.

I'll take a wait and see attitude but have no problem with not drinking at a contest.

roksmith
02-15-2011, 11:46 AM
Don't ask the question that you don't want to hear the answer to.
Like most places.. keep it inside your area and out of site and it's not normally an issue.
..drinking a beer from a red plastic cup, normally not a problem... walking around with a bottle of bud?.. problem

ique
02-15-2011, 11:50 AM
I'd prefer a celebrity judge who has at least been educated on KCBS judging as opposed to a newly certified judge. In general, newly certified judges score lower as they look for reasons to ding the cooks. Seasoned CBJs typically look for the best qualities in the samples they judge.

Hmm, I've always thought the seasoned CBJ tends to score the lowest. They have more experiences with a "perfect" entry and tend to giving fewer 9's the longer they judge. Not necessarily a bad thing, they are just not as easily impressed.

Rub
02-15-2011, 12:00 PM
Hmm, I've always thought the seasoned CBJ tends to score the lowest. They have more experiences with a "perfect" entry and tend to giving fewer 9's the longer they judge. Not necessarily a bad thing, they are just not as easily impressed.
I agree. I have a feeling they begin comparitive judging somewhere along the line and it goes downhill.

Carnivorous Endeavors BBQ
02-15-2011, 12:15 PM
to Big D BBQ...
I noticed that in the rules also. It is strange though, that Rule 36 appears to say NO alcohol is permitted but rule 34 clearly states that you should "store alcohol in locked containers"...Hmmmm guess KCBS and Sams should make a clarification on this.

34. It is the responsibility of each team to secure all items when not present. Lock food, beverages, and valuables out of sight in vehicles, and extinguish all fires/flames, unplug outlets, secure pits, chairs, ice chests, and store alcohol in locked containers.



36. The use, possession, sale, transfer, acceptance, solicitation or purchase of illegal drugs at any time is strictly prohibited. The use, possession of an open container, personal sale, transfer or acceptance of alcohol on Wal-Mart property is strictly prohibited. Any violation of this rule will be grounds for immediate disqualification.

Diva
02-15-2011, 12:23 PM
Seasoned CBJs typically look for the best qualities in the samples they judge.

I'm not speaking about ALL of them, but, I would have to disagree.

Carnivorous Endeavors BBQ
02-15-2011, 12:30 PM
Hello All,

I am not sure if i just see this the wrong way but doesn't it seem that it is statistically easier to make it to a regional contest if you compete in region 5 (3 contests with 10 each advancing) as opposed to region 3 (5 contest with 6 each advancing)? I am not including the quality or level of competition at these events. I understand the need to balance the total number of competitors at each regional, just seems like the fair thing to do would be to have the same number of competitors advance for every 30 entered. Rules are rules but i just found that a bit odd.

Thanks.

Ford
02-15-2011, 12:47 PM
to Big D BBQ...
I noticed that in the rules also. It is strange though, that Rule 36 appears to say NO alcohol is permitted but rule 34 clearly states that you should "store alcohol in locked containers"...Hmmmm guess KCBS and Sams should make a clarification on this.

34. It is the responsibility of each team to secure all items when not present. Lock food, beverages, and valuables out of sight in vehicles, and extinguish all fires/flames, unplug outlets, secure pits, chairs, ice chests, and store alcohol in locked containers.
Rule 34 means if you have a trailer or motorhome the alcohol needs to be in a locked container and not in the fridge. Tough to enforce.

Ron_L
02-15-2011, 01:03 PM
Rule 34 means if you have a trailer or motorhome the alcohol needs to be in a locked container and not in the fridge. Tough to enforce.

I read it differently. To me it simply says "If you are going to leave your site, secure your stuff" :)

What bothers me about that rule is this part...

extinguish all fires/flames, unplug outlets

So, according to that, if you are going to leave your site you have to put out your fire and unplug everything. That makes it hard to cook for stick burners and pellet heads unless someone is on site at all times. :-D

Carnivorous Endeavors BBQ
02-15-2011, 01:14 PM
Rule 34 does seem to be directions for securing a site if no team member is present but i could see it being read as Ford described also.

Rule 36 seems pretty straight forward. It says use, possesion of open container, giving or receiving alcohol is prohibited on Walmart property and is grounds for disqualification.

Wonder if they would buy the loophole that we are technically at "Sam's" not at Walmart....Ha ha ha:becky:

Smoke'n Ice
02-15-2011, 01:22 PM
Sam's sells alchol. I believe all state laws have provisions about on site consumption. They can lose their license to sell if they don't enforce the no-consumption law. Sam's will not lose their license, they will just ask you to leave. The same thing I would do at my restaurant. Keep it circumspect, don't be obvious or an AH and there's not a problem.

Most of you may not understand about the pedigre of the denzins who occupy Sam's parking lots at night. There is security in number, and Texas and other states have an open carry law if you have the proper training and permits. What I would really like to see is on-site police officers and not their rent-a-cops.

If you leave your site, it may not be there when you return.

Big D BBQ
02-15-2011, 01:56 PM
Thanks for the responses, appreciate it. :thumb:

tmcmaster
02-15-2011, 03:05 PM
Sam's sells alchol. I believe all state laws have provisions about on site consumption. They can lose their license to sell if they don't enforce the no-consumption law. Sam's will not lose their license, they will just ask you to leave. The same thing I would do at my restaurant. Keep it circumspect, don't be obvious or an AH and there's not a problem.

Most of you may not understand about the pedigre of the denzins who occupy Sam's parking lots at night. There is security in number, and Texas and other states have an open carry law if you have the proper training and permits. What I would really like to see is on-site police officers and not their rent-a-cops.

If you leave your site, it may not be there when you return.

Not in PA (for the Pittsbugh). Alcohol is pretty tightly restricted in PA, actually. I think, given the rule as it is written, for this one, we may go totally dry.:doh:

Jeff_in_KC
02-15-2011, 03:23 PM
No alcohol is not a problem for us... we go to work and not drink. If there's no rule against it, I will sip a glass of wine on Friday evening or have a beer late, maybe a bloody mary for breakfast and sometimes take part in the "good luck shot", wherever it is. That's about it for us anymore.

White Dog BBQ
02-15-2011, 03:56 PM
Not in PA (for the Pittsbugh). Alcohol is pretty tightly restricted in PA, actually. I think, given the rule as it is written, for this one, we may go totally dry.:doh:

No worries -- Quaker Steak & Lube (best wings USA!) is in the same parking lot as Sam's. You know where I'll be hanging out!

CBQ
02-16-2011, 07:46 AM
34. It is the responsibility of each team to secure all items when not present. Lock food, beverages, and valuables out of sight in vehicles, and extinguish all fires/flames, unplug outlets, secure pits, chairs, ice chests, and store alcohol in locked containers.

36. The use, possession, sale, transfer, acceptance, solicitation or purchase of illegal drugs at any time is strictly prohibited. The use, possession of an open container, personal sale, transfer or acceptance of alcohol on Wal-Mart property is strictly prohibited. Any violation of this rule will be grounds for immediate disqualification.

You can have it, but you can't use it, apparently. :-D

lcbateman3
02-16-2011, 10:05 AM
No alcohol is not a problem for us... we go to work and not drink. If there's no rule against it, I will sip a glass of wine on Friday evening or have a beer late, maybe a bloody mary for breakfast and sometimes take part in the "good luck shot", wherever it is. That's about it for us anymore.

We're the same way, we go for a reason and try not to get off that reason. Plus, we're not big drinkers to begin with.

SirPorkaLot
02-18-2011, 09:01 AM
We are confirmed for Chesapeake - from there onto Medford, NY & then AR.
:becky:

ZILLA
02-18-2011, 09:15 PM
i think i'm going to go bottom feed in that texas region

:twisted:


bring it!

Ford
02-21-2011, 11:16 AM
took a few tries as they had the filter for only 1 contest per team still on but they fixed it and I'm in for Baton Rouge.

Guess I'll find out what Florida is like in May now.

lcbateman3
02-21-2011, 11:24 AM
So looks like all are filled minus Orlando, Fl (1 Spot Open) and Santa Fe, NM (9 Spots Open)

Sylvie
02-21-2011, 11:29 AM
Quite a few teams bettering their chances with two contests.

ique
02-21-2011, 12:04 PM
Quite a few teams bettering their chances with two contests.

Now that it is legal, not a bad idea

tmcmaster
02-22-2011, 07:06 AM
Now that it is legal, not a bad idea
Seems a little 'dirty' to me, though... I mean, if that were across the board, How many teams would have suddenly been NFC West teams this year?:laugh:

B & B Backyard BBQ
02-22-2011, 07:28 AM
We got the last spot for Chesapeake, should be fun.

Jorge
02-22-2011, 08:46 AM
Seems a little 'dirty' to me, though... I mean, if that were across the board, How many teams would have suddenly been NFC West teams this year?:laugh:

I gave it a quick glance yesterday, and the majority of the teams I saw entering a second contest are teams that I expect to advance to the regional from their first contest anyway. They are just cooking for money more than likely, and in some cases reducing the distance they normally have to travel. If they qualify a second time, it still doesn't impact anyone else in terms of making it into the regional since the rules already address that.

White Dog BBQ
02-22-2011, 08:59 AM
Seems a little 'dirty' to me, though... I mean, if that were across the board, How many teams would have suddenly been NFC West teams this year?:laugh:

I can't agree -- I thought it was B.S. When teams tried when it was limited to one per team, but don't see a problem now. For this tournament to work every contest needs to be full. As long as everyone else gets a chance for a try first, I'm fine with some people signing up for multiple contests.

As far as White Dog is concerned, though, we only need one chance. :-)

tmcmaster
02-22-2011, 09:01 AM
I gave it a quick glance yesterday, and the majority of the teams I saw entering a second contest are teams that I expect to advance to the regional from their first contest anyway. They are just cooking for money more than likely, and in some cases reducing the distance they normally have to travel. If they qualify a second time, it still doesn't impact anyone else in terms of making it into the regional since the rules already address that.

I can't agree -- I thought it was B.S. When teams tried when it was limited to one per team, but don't see a problem now. For this tournament to work every contest needs to be full. As long as everyone else gets a chance for a try first, I'm fine with some people signing up for multiple contests.

As far as White Dog is concerned, though, we only need one chance. :-)

Valid points, all. However, it was more of slam on the weak-@$$ NFC West... :becky:

PMRBBQ also only needs one entry! See you all in AR!

ique
02-22-2011, 11:42 AM
I gave it a quick glance yesterday, and the majority of the teams I saw entering a second contest are teams that I expect to advance to the regional from their first contest anyway. They are just cooking for money more than likely, and in some cases reducing the distance they normally have to travel. If they qualify a second time, it still doesn't impact anyone else in terms of making it into the regional since the rules already address that.

But they can cook in two regionals right? Thats a pretty nice advantage

Jorge
02-22-2011, 11:50 AM
But they can cook in two regionals right? Thats a pretty nice advantage

Not the way I read the rules. Once a team has qualified for a regional, they are only cooking for money. Invites to the regional are passed down if a team, that has already qualified, places in a qualifying spot in a subsequent 'local'.

tmcmaster
02-22-2011, 11:52 AM
Not the way I read the rules. Once a team has qualified for a regional, they are only cooking for money. Invites to the regional are passed down if a team, that has already qualified, places in a qualifying spot in a subsequent 'local'.
That was how I read it, a team can compete in multiple locals, but if they advance in ONE of them, they are in a regional, and can't compete in any OTHER locals...

Jorge
02-22-2011, 11:54 AM
That was how I read it, a team can compete in multiple locals, but if they advance in ONE of them, they are in a regional, and can't compete in any OTHER locals...

They CAN compete in other locals, but only one regional is the way I read it.

tmcmaster
02-22-2011, 12:05 PM
They CAN compete in other locals, but only one regional is the way I read it.
Maybe I need to re-read that rule, then...

Mike - CSBBBQ
02-22-2011, 02:09 PM
They CAN compete in other locals, but only one regional is the way I read it.

How I read. If you qualify in one region then you must cook that region. You can cook another local contest (qualifier) in the same region or another region. However once you qualify for a particular regional you can not qualify for another regional. You may still compete and if you do qualify the qualification goes to the next team on the list.

Sylvie
02-22-2011, 08:05 PM
This is the wording cut and pasted from KCBS.

"If openings occur that allow teams to enter more than one local contest, teams will be allowed to compete in multiple regional contests. However, once a team wins at a regional, they will have only ONE (1) entry into the National Contest. Any subsequent wins at a regional contest by that team will be for prize money only."

Jorge
02-23-2011, 08:46 AM
This is the wording cut and pasted from KCBS.

"If openings occur that allow teams to enter more than one local contest, teams will be allowed to compete in multiple regional contests. However, once a team wins at a regional, they will have only ONE (1) entry into the National Contest. Any subsequent wins at a regional contest by that team will be for prize money only."

I was wrong. Thanks for clearing that error up!:becky:

Fat Woody
04-06-2011, 02:00 PM
Not sure if this has been mentioned elsewhere, but thought it might be worth resuscitating this old thread: Appears the no alcohol rule has been repealed (or am I missing something?). So clean your pits, leave your Jefe 2012 signs at home but go ahead and pack that cooler.

Here's the link to the rules page:

http://www.kcbs.us/sams-club-series-rules.php

Jorge
04-06-2011, 02:07 PM
Not sure if this has been mentioned elsewhere, but thought it might be worth resuscitating this old thread: Appears the no alcohol rule has been repealed (or am I missing something?). So clean your pits, leave your Jefe 2012 signs at home but go ahead and pack that cooler.

Here's the link to the rules page:

http://www.kcbs.us/sams-club-series-rules.php

My wife wants to hug you!:becky:

Smoke'n Ice
04-06-2011, 02:34 PM
AS LONG AS IT SAY'S JUST "JEFE" NO ONE WILL KNOW IT IS POLITICAL EXCEPT THE OTHER COOKS.:becky:

Scottie
04-06-2011, 05:57 PM
There are ways around everything Jefe.

A&M rocks! Just love that maroon color. I think I am still horse from all the screaming I was doing last night!!!

Jefe 2012!!!! ;)



My wife wants to hug you!:becky:

:wink:

quarters69
05-29-2011, 09:50 PM
If a team is registered for 2 'local' events and qualify's in one for the next comp,, do they get to still get to compete in the other one 'local' that they are registered for??

Crash
05-29-2011, 09:56 PM
If a team is registered for 2 'local' events and qualify's in one for the next comp,, do they get to still get to compete in the other one 'local' that they are registered for??
Yes.

quarters69
05-29-2011, 10:05 PM
You would think that they would let another team have a chance of getting in if that team is qualified already. I guess im just being selfish, i am close to getting in and noticed that the team was qualified already.