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Smoothsmoke
02-10-2011, 07:39 PM
Are devices such as gurus and others that help you maintain temperature allowed at comps? If so, do you believe they should be allowed? Was there ever a time when such devices were banned from competition?

Mister Bob
02-10-2011, 07:47 PM
They are allowed at KCBS comps, and I do believe they should be allowed. Remember that food has to be turned in on a very tight timetable. Keeping the fire at a consistent temperature is essential for timing the cook. A pellet cooker has an auger feed, should they be banned too?

TooSaucedToPork
02-10-2011, 07:56 PM
Are devices such as gurus and others that help you maintain temperature allowed at comps? If so, do you believe they should be allowed? Was there ever a time when such devices were banned from competition?

Absolutely they are allowed. While I used to be of the mindset that they took the skill out of BBQing I now think they are a great invention. While I still cook without them and turn out great Que, they make it so much easier and give me a better product.

Contracted Cookers
02-10-2011, 07:58 PM
They are allowed at KCBS comps, and I do believe they should be allowed. Remember that food has to be turned in on a very tight timetable. Keeping the fire at a consistent temperature is essential for timing the cook. A pellet cooker has an auger feed, should they be banned too?
right on the money MR. BOB

jbrink01
02-10-2011, 08:01 PM
I'm all for it! But, I'd like to see an offset only contest with no electronics.

Alexa RnQ
02-10-2011, 08:32 PM
I concur with all above! Yes, forced-draft systems are allowed in KCBS competitions -- each of our 19 GCs have been won using a Stoker.

However, forced-draft systems are not a be-all end-all. They are a great tool, but they do not replace fire skills or the knowledge and experience gained by tending meat under varying conditions.

abangs
02-10-2011, 08:38 PM
I love my guru but think it would awesome to have a no electronics comp!!!

Smokin' Bad Habit
02-10-2011, 09:24 PM
I'm all for it! But, I'd like to see an offset only contest with no electronics.
..I like the idea of "naked BBQ contest"

Capn Kev
02-10-2011, 10:09 PM
I'm a die-hard pellet head. However, I'd LOVE to cook a no electronics competition to bring it back to old school. Wouldn't really change my sleep patterns anyway ;)

SirPorkaLot
02-10-2011, 10:18 PM
Count me in big time for an old school contest format.
Wood and/ or hardwood charcoal only.
no pellets. No stokers, no gurus, heck I would be ok with no gas assist (lighting)

Personally I think the devices and such have been good for the BBQ competition community as a whole, because it has opened up BBQ to a whole group of people that otherwise wouldn't do it. (too much work, lack of sleep, etc)

However (and I have said this in here before) you get down to the basics of BBQ and take away all the gadgets, then you are really looking at the pitmasters ability more so than how fancy their cooker is

Slamdunkpro
02-10-2011, 11:17 PM
All you gotta do is come to PA.

1st Go Naked BBQ Comp. April 2nd (http://www.gonakedbbq.com/)

bbq lover
02-10-2011, 11:25 PM
lol we have a very ugly drums with a stoker and pellet grills and gadgets are nice to have to be able to sleep 6 hrs or more during the comps ... is priceless

Brewer
02-11-2011, 12:55 AM
..I like the idea of "naked BBQ contest"

That could get ugly.... just sayin....

tmcmaster
02-11-2011, 07:02 AM
They are allowed at KCBS comps, and I do believe they should be allowed. Remember that food has to be turned in on a very tight timetable. Keeping the fire at a consistent temperature is essential for timing the cook. A pellet cooker has an auger feed, should they be banned too?

Personally, I think they should be banned. At the point where one simply turns a dial to set the temp, it's an oven.:tape:

tmcmaster
02-11-2011, 07:05 AM
All you gotta do is come to PA.

1st Go Naked BBQ Comp. April 2nd (http://www.gonakedbbq.com/)
:clap2::clap2::clap2:

JD McGee
02-11-2011, 07:07 AM
The only devices I use are my own...:twisted: But as to your question...I do not use them...but have no problems with other folks doing so...:becky:

Ford
02-11-2011, 07:18 AM
There was a time many years ago when dinosaures roamed the plains and pulled big blasck trailer offsets to contests with words like OK Joes or Klose on them. Then the messiah (an old tired fireman :twisted:) invented something called a Fest Eddy and the BBQ world was changed forever. With the advent of modern technology in the Fast Eddy it was only a matter of time until somebody invented a forced air device for other pits so could again compete with the modern Fast Eddy.

But seriously to answer your question, the devices are legal and there was a time when we didn't have them. There was no rule saying they were legal but then again there was no device.

HawgNationBBQ
02-11-2011, 07:25 AM
They are allowed at KCBS comps, and I do believe they should be allowed. Remember that food has to be turned in on a very tight timetable. Keeping the fire at a consistent temperature is essential for timing the cook. A pellet cooker has an auger feed, should they be banned too?

Yea, what Bob said---:thumb:

Tack
02-11-2011, 07:26 AM
As a died in the wool stickburner I chose to go with thetraditional method. I do not however think that these devices should be banned. It just makes it a little sweeter when my 600 dollar cooker and I get to walk in a comp against the guys with the high dollar units and control systems. Its just a matter of personal choice.

Carnivorous Endeavors BBQ
02-11-2011, 09:28 AM
I use a CyberQ II on my WSM's. Its not because I cannot manage my fires but mainly because i cook solo most of the time and it sure does let me rest easier. These devices are criticized by many as making it oven-like. However, IMHO, having a double walled specially insulated cooker it really oven-like as well.

rlncookinbbq
02-11-2011, 09:30 AM
Are there any uds contests in the future, that anyone knows about?

T.K.
02-13-2011, 07:10 AM
FBA allows them as well. There is one comp in FL that I'm aware of that only wood & charcoal are allowed, no electronics. I think it's called Bricks & Sticks or something like that.

Lakeside Smoker
02-13-2011, 09:04 AM
I personally don't care. I cook on a homemade smoker with no electronics. But, I don't mind competing against someone using an FE, a Guru, or whatever. I just worry about what's happening in my 20 X 20, not theirs.

I think some people confuse competition BBQ with traditional BBQ. They're two different things.

-Mike

RedPig
02-13-2011, 09:58 AM
I do think at some point a line has to be drawn. Technology eventually will take us to where it's virtually no different than cooking indoors. Some of us think it gives an unfair advantage vs traditional ways. Maybe it does. I got my fast eddy for convenience, not advantage. I get more sleep (not really).
Bottom line is most good cooks can cook on just about anything and the cream usually rises to the top from a consistency standpoint.

Red Valley BBQ
02-13-2011, 10:17 AM
At the point where one simply turns a dial to set the temp, it's an oven.:tape:

But you don't have to feed an oven charcoal or wood at different intervals. These devices only control the flow of air, which in return controls the temp. It's the same thing as using the intakes built into the cooker, just takes the guess work out of it. While I personally don't use them, I have nothing against them. There is something to be said for a decent night's sleep.

moocow
02-13-2011, 10:42 AM
Personally, I think they should be banned. At the point where one simply turns a dial to set the temp, it's an oven.:tape:
Maybe you should haul your smoker and gear to the next comp with a horse drawn buggy instead of an automobile if you are so opposed to switches and dials!:-P Just because my charcoal/wood smoker runs on a stoker in no way means its not a lot of work to cook a contest!

MattCom
02-13-2011, 10:47 AM
It is legal and I think there would be far less competitors if this wasn't allowed. I wonder if the decision to allow it came only to be sure comps would have a greater team turn out.
A successful BBQ cook consists of many elements coming together. Using the devices ensures that certain elements are not a factor to that team.
I doubt very much that the teams that rely on the various electronics would be able to compete on the same level without them.
Does a wsm really need such devices?

RedPig
02-13-2011, 02:13 PM
Having a stoker or any other type of pit controller is not a crutch for competitive teams. Success is not guaranteed just because you have the latest and greatest gadget. Sure, they are nice but they are another tool of many that comp teams use should they choose. As I've stated many times before in this forum, you still must know how to cook very well to be competitive. The teams that are always at the top are there because they have done their homework, they know what works and doesn't. Anything to simplify the cooking process is a good thing IMO. It's all in how you use it. Having a great set of golf clubs will not make you a pro golfer. You still have to bring talent to the game. I could smoke with a trash can , wood and coals. But on the other hand, like another member said, we're not in the stone age anymore.

indianagriller
02-13-2011, 03:25 PM
I cook on an Ole Hickory CTO, just flip the switch and turn the dial, does that make me or anyone who uses it less of a cook? I still have to tend to the pit to add charcoal and wood. Competition bbq is about consistency, if i can take one variable out of the equation it leaves me with less room for error.

nthole
02-13-2011, 03:48 PM
We cook on WSMs, no electronics. They maintain a pretty good temperature without all the gadgets, but I'm definitely jealous of those that have them. It's hardly different than the pellet smokers. I don't consider it a crutch since there are soooo many other elements involved. If you are truly going to say take Q to it's basics, why allow charcoal? Make it all wood and you have to burn it down to coals.

smoke-n-my-i's
02-13-2011, 03:52 PM
It is said that they have to use it to get done in time for the tight turn in times..... well, let it be known, that there are a LOT of teams that do not use them, including myself, that have no problem with turn in times. We get the meats done, boxes ready, and turned in within the time frame.

So my question is, why do you have to have it to make turn ins?

Bourbon Barrel BBQ
02-13-2011, 06:03 PM
It is said that they have to use it to get done in time for the tight turn in times..... well, let it be known, that there are a LOT of teams that do not use them, including myself, that have no problem with turn in times. We get the meats done, boxes ready, and turned in within the time frame.

So my question is, why do you have to have it to make turn ins?


We have used a guru and a stoker at one comp or another but its not for tight turn ins. Our food is off the cooker a good while before turn ins. We use it for one reason and one reason only. Sleep. There is no prize for staying up all night stoking a fire so why am I going to bother? I bought a well insulated cooker and electronics for that very reason. I load it up with charcoal and wood at the beginning of the cook, turn on my draft controller, and the only other time I touch my cooker is to open the door to take meat in and out. If that makes me less of a BBQ cook than some so be it. I'm perfectly fine sleeping and having one less variable to worry about with my food. I'm more concerned with a call than my pride getting in the way.

smoke-n-my-i's
02-13-2011, 07:23 PM
We have used a guru and a stoker at one comp or another but its not for tight turn ins. Our food is off the cooker a good while before turn ins. We use it for one reason and one reason only. Sleep. There is no prize for staying up all night stoking a fire so why am I going to bother? I bought a well insulated cooker and electronics for that very reason. I load it up with charcoal and wood at the beginning of the cook, turn on my draft controller, and the only other time I touch my cooker is to open the door to take meat in and out. If that makes me less of a BBQ cook than some so be it. I'm perfectly fine sleeping and having one less variable to worry about with my food. I'm more concerned with a call than my pride getting in the way.

Now that I use a UDS instead of the fuel hog offsets, I can get about an easy 4-5 hrs sleep and not even worry about it... it is set it, forget it, and go to sleep....

Bourbon Barrel BBQ
02-13-2011, 07:40 PM
Now that I use a UDS instead of the fuel hog offsets, I can get about an easy 4-5 hrs sleep and not even worry about it... it is set it, forget it, and go to sleep....

Sounds like you've got a good system down. I just like a little more peace of mind when trying to get some shut eye. I'm a bit paranoid.

Smoothsmoke
02-13-2011, 09:08 PM
Great stuff people. I never competed and really don't plan to. Just was curious as an outsider. I figured these devices gave an advantage at temp control, but if everyone is allowed to use it, good for them. I will probably get a guru or something like that when I buy a WSM. I think I'd be too paranoid doing an overnight cook w/o one. :thumb:

4 smokin butts
02-13-2011, 09:45 PM
we use gurus,word to wise,,,always have a spare,just in case rain soaked,are any thing goes wrong.if comp is supplying electric by gen.,run your controlers on jump starts.tallidega last year we burned up3 because gens were not putting out correct hertz

TN_BBQ
02-14-2011, 08:35 AM
Are devices such as gurus and others that help you maintain temperature allowed at comps? If so, do you believe they should be allowed? Was there ever a time when such devices were banned from competition?

Yes
Yes
Not sure. Probably not. Rules just state that heat must come from something other than electricity and/or gas (I'm paraphrasing).

tmcmaster
02-14-2011, 08:38 AM
Maybe you should haul your smoker and gear to the next comp with a horse drawn buggy instead of an automobile if you are so opposed to switches and dials!:-P Just because my charcoal/wood smoker runs on a stoker in no way means its not a lot of work to cook a contest!

With all due respect...
That statement makes about as much sense as me telling you that since you love dials and switches so much, I expect to see your gear dropped off by Harrier Jet at the next contest. What does my opposition to devices that make a smoker more of an oven than a smoker have to do with my travel arrangements? :boxing:

And my initial distaste for stokers is diminished compared to my dislike for pellet pooping machines. Which are certainly, in my mind at least, more oven than smoker. :tape:

HolySmoke
02-14-2011, 09:19 AM
I think stokers & guru's are great as well as pellet poopers, I would love to get one but using them is so hard. Turning those dials, pushing buttons & THEN going to sleep all night long.... whew!! Far to much skill for me.

smokeyw
02-14-2011, 10:02 AM
I can honestly see both sides of this. However, my question is where do you draw the line? If you allow stokers and guru type devices, pellet feeds etc., then why not allow gas cookers with smoke injectors such as the Smoke Daddy? I think there is a strong arguement for that. I'm not arguing for or against any of this. I just think at some point it will become a valid discussion, especially as technology continues to advance.

djqualls
02-14-2011, 10:59 PM
If you want to go naked then omit tuning plates, water pans, baffles, and multi level racks.

Let's go ahead and ban spices and any trimming. Also no thermometers! If taste,smell and feel can't get it done then you aren't a real cook I guess.

smokeyw
02-15-2011, 07:17 AM
If you want to go naked then omit tuning plates, water pans, baffles, and multi level racks.

Let's go ahead and ban spices and any trimming. Also no thermometers! If taste,smell and feel can't get it done then you aren't a real cook I guess.

It seems every time someone wants to start a legitimate discussion about something that can be a little controversial depending on how you look at it, others have to post something rediculous that has nothing to do with the discussion.

scm1226
02-15-2011, 11:15 AM
I have a WSM and UDS- no gurus or such. I pretty sure I would love to have one, maybe next season.
As for the "pellet poopers" how do they get their heat source? Not familiar with them. Why not plug in an electric smoker and throw some wood chips on that? What is the difference between those and the pellet machines? (I like my UDS and WSM)

Smoothsmoke
02-15-2011, 11:18 AM
If you want to go naked then omit tuning plates, water pans, baffles, and multi level racks.

Let's go ahead and ban spices and any trimming. Also no thermometers! If taste,smell and feel can't get it done then you aren't a real cook I guess.

So funny


zzzzzzzzzzzzz.

TN_BBQ
02-15-2011, 07:25 PM
where do you draw the line?

It's about the source of the fire. Fire comes from burning wood or wood product.

Electricity ain't wood and neither is gas.

Brewer
02-15-2011, 08:24 PM
If you want to go naked then omit tuning plates, water pans, baffles, and multi level racks.

Let's go ahead and ban spices and any trimming. Also no thermometers! If taste,smell and feel can't get it done then you aren't a real cook I guess.

+1 - we all live in glass houses... some are bigger than others...

sitnfat
02-15-2011, 09:18 PM
I don't see a problem with any of them, then again I always request to be set up next to the main breaker! :idea:

CBQ
02-16-2011, 07:34 AM
As for the "pellet poopers" how do they get their heat source? Not familiar with them. Why not plug in an electric smoker and throw some wood chips on that? What is the difference between those and the pellet machines? (I like my UDS and WSM)

A pellet cooker gets it's heat from wood. A computer controls both the fire draft, and the flow of fuel (wood pellets) into the fire. It's good, but not perfect. Fires can go out or run away. (Look up topics with "fire" in the title on the Cookshack Forums.)

If anyone thinks using a Stoker or Guru turns your smoker into "turn the dial" oven they are welcome to go a round with my Stoker equipped Klose. The type of charcoal used, the position of the charcoal baskets, the angle of the smoker, whether it's raining or not, which racks you use, the level of ash in the cooker, the level of fuel remaining, where you position the meats, the use and position of foil or foil pans, and whether or not you use the vertical baffle all change the performance of the smoker.

I get a longer fuel burn with the Stoker (more sleep), and a faster recovery time when I open a door or refuel, but it's not a substitute for knowing your cooker.

smokeyw
02-16-2011, 07:41 AM
I'm all for getting more sleep. I don't have any experience with a stoker or guru but I'm thinking about one for my UDS for those long cooks. It holds temps pretty good for 6 hours or so and then will start falling some.

ammoore
02-16-2011, 09:18 AM
I get a longer fuel burn with the Stoker (more sleep), and a faster recovery time when I open a door or refuel, but it's not a substitute for knowing your cooker.


Amen!....I got a stoker before last comp season. More than once, my cooker has run away with itself due to a leaky firebox door gasket. :mad2:
You still have to know your cooker and how to make those mid contest adjustments that are inevitable.


With that said, I like the idea of a "naked" contest series. I think it would be a new (old) twist on things.

tmcmaster
02-16-2011, 09:24 AM
With that said, I like the idea of a "naked" contest series. I think it would be a new (old) twist on things.

Ummm.... Check out www.GoNakedBBQ.com (http://www.GoNakedBBQ.com) :thumb:</thread hijack>

wormdrink67
02-16-2011, 06:19 PM
Absolutely they should be allowed. They help offset the advantage of (examples only) Jambo compared to a Weber. I'm much more opposed to pellet smokers as I am to gurus/etc....but whatever turns out the best Q, that's what I want.

KC_Bobby
02-16-2011, 11:06 PM
And I thought Mr. Ed was dead.

monty3777
02-17-2011, 08:29 AM
It's a meat contest, not a cooker contest.

ClayHill
02-17-2011, 10:33 AM
It has always been my thought that a pit should be built to use natural air flow to maintain temps, first and foremost. It’s hard to get that right (pit design), but for those who do get it right, they produce fine low maintenance pits. If the pits has trouble maintaining your desired temp, then you… either don’t know your pit and how to operate it or it was poorly designed by the manufacture.
I’m not for or against the use of electronics in competition. I choose not to use it, it’s my own personal choice……….it doesn’t make me better (or worse) or more skilled than the next person, and quite frankly I’m cheap and I have bad luck with electronic devices failing when I need them most.
It would be interesting to see if removing electronic devices would change the outcome of competitions, I honestly don’t think it would, as they say, cream rises to the top……. teams that win week in and week out know what it takes to win, even if their backwoods isn’t hooked up to a guru

tmcmaster
02-17-2011, 02:07 PM
It has always been my thought that a pit should be built to use natural air flow to maintain temps, first and foremost. Itís hard to get that right (pit design), but for those who do get it right, they produce fine low maintenance pits. If the pits has trouble maintaining your desired temp, then youÖ either donít know your pit and how to operate it or it was poorly designed by the manufacture.
Iím not for or against the use of electronics in competition. I choose not to use it, itís my own personal choiceÖÖÖ.it doesnít make me better (or worse) or more skilled than the next person, and quite frankly Iím cheap and I have bad luck with electronic devices failing when I need them most.
It would be interesting to see if removing electronic devices would change the outcome of competitions, I honestly donít think it would, as they say, cream rises to the topÖÖ. teams that win week in and week out know what it takes to win, even if their backwoods isnít hooked up to a guru

<shameless plug>There is always www.GoNakedBBQ.com (http://www.GoNakedBBQ.com) </shameless plug>
:becky:

ClayHill
02-17-2011, 02:47 PM
<shameless plug>There is always www.GoNakedBBQ.com (http://www.GoNakedBBQ.com) </shameless plug>
:becky:

I know, I know Tim,lol. Go Naked is a short cook IMO, thus taking fatigue and stamina out of the equation:becky:

tmcmaster
02-17-2011, 03:00 PM
I know, I know Tim,lol. Go Naked is a short cook IMO, thus taking fatigue and stamina out of the equation:becky:


True, but the original question was:
Are devices such as gurus and others that help you maintain temperature allowed at comps? If so, do you believe they should be allowed? Was there ever a time when such devices were banned from competition?
No mention of fatigue... Plus, I am a shameless marketer... :laugh:

Bourbon Barrel BBQ
02-17-2011, 07:23 PM
It would be interesting to see if removing electronic devices would change the outcome of competitions, I honestly don’t think it would, as they say, cream rises to the top……. teams that win week in and week out know what it takes to win, even if their backwoods isn’t hooked up to a guru


So those that win with electronics would still win? I thought you just said they didn't know their pit or how to operate it? :)

ClayHill
02-17-2011, 07:38 PM
So those that win with electronics would still win? I thought you just said they didn't know their pit or how to operate it? :)


My post wasnít an attack on anyone, or at least I didnít mean it to be. And I never said those who use electronics donít know their pit or how to operate it. I simply think that top pit masters can operate their pit without the use of electronics, but some choose tooÖ

AZScott
02-17-2011, 07:59 PM
Electronics or not it comes down to knowing how to cook a piece of meat. I learned to bbq w/o electronics and with time I found out where the sweet spot is for tenderness with different meats. That is the number one component of competition bbq. Who gives a rip if your smoker moves only 2 degrees during the entire cook due to electronics or the ability to control your pit that way if your meat doesn't turn out tender? Top teams know where their meat tenderness needs to be and the flavor profiles that compliment the meat to please the judges.

The Pigman
02-17-2011, 08:51 PM
I agree....



Count me in big time for an old school contest format.
Wood and/ or hardwood charcoal only.
no pellets. No stokers, no gurus, heck I would be ok with no gas assist (lighting)

Personally I think the devices and such have been good for the BBQ competition community as a whole, because it has opened up BBQ to a whole group of people that otherwise wouldn't do it. (too much work, lack of sleep, etc)

However (and I have said this in here before) you get down to the basics of BBQ and take away all the gadgets, then you are really looking at the pitmasters ability more so than how fancy their cooker is

tmcmaster
02-18-2011, 06:27 AM
I agree....
Amen!