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View Full Version : Competition Rubs and Sauces


smokeyw
02-08-2011, 07:54 PM
First of all, let me say that I am not trying to start an arguement. However, I would like to say how I feel about something and would like to know how others feel.
I personally can not use someone elses rub or sauce in a competition. Win or lose, I need to know it is all me and my team. I personally feel like this is as big a part of the competition as the cooking is. I know it would be hard to enforce but I believe that teams should have to make their own sauce and rubs. I know many will disagree with me but I would like to hear some opinions on this.

slowerlowerbbq
02-08-2011, 08:03 PM
I hear ya and I respect your opinion, but I have to disagree. You can give the same sauces and rubs to a BBQ champion and a complete beginner and I can guarantee you will NOT get the same results. Cooking Que is so much more than just the sauces and rubs. Most don't even use them as made but will often doctor them or mix flavors to get their own desired result. Me? I prefer my own rubs but I can't make sauce to save my life so I use a doctored up commercial sauce.

Just my $0.02.

Finney
02-08-2011, 08:16 PM
Do what you feel... Whatever that is...

Jacked UP BBQ
02-08-2011, 08:23 PM
I agree with you, but have crossed over to using commercial sauce and rubs. I still use my own rub on pork. I use most commercial sauces as an ingredient not a sauce. Our pork sauce has about 12 ingredients in it. Brisket 7. Chicken 5. and Ribs who cares because our ribs suck. It would make it more interesting if everyone did make their own, it would lighten up the playing field a little but it would be impossible to keep bbq comps as big as they are and as fast as they are growing and I thank all the companies that put out great commercial stuff for that.

Ken V
02-08-2011, 08:36 PM
Do you feel the same way about smokers also?

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

Plowboy
02-08-2011, 08:38 PM
You'd have less parity in the sport and fewer people competing as a whole. Not everyone knows how to make a sauce, craft a rub, or build their own pit. Interesting idea? Sure. But it is like talking peace in the Middle East.

smokeyw
02-08-2011, 08:44 PM
Do you feel the same way about smokers also?

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

Why would I feel this way about smokers?

The reason I feel this way about sauce and rubs is because I feel like that is part of cooking. Making sauces and using spices is taught in every culinary school as a part of cooking.

It doesn't bother me if people don't agree with me. I'm just looking for reasons why they don't agree.

TooSaucedToPork
02-08-2011, 08:45 PM
We make all of our own rubs and sauces...but I have seen people who swear by the commercial sauces and rubs for the consistancy.

If you always get your peppers for your sauce from joe bob at the farmers market, and then joe bob's flavor profile changes due to weather, soil problems, you name it so does your scores...

If you find combining 3 commercial sauces works, go for it...that is still creating your own flavor profile...

If you buy rub in 5 pound bags and add 4 tbsp cajun seasoning and some more chili powder for color, you have made it your own...

Some people can BBQ, Some can cook amazing sauce, Some can make a mean rub...If you can do all three well then you are a BBQ God. If you can't then you are like most people and thats okay too...It may be about the competition but it is also about the fun, and too many knit picky rules ruin the fun. If you try and outlaw commercial rubs, sauces, and marinades then what is next. No more commercial pre-cut de-barked logs...you gotta season your own wood? Well I do, but hell, a lot of us don't.

There is a line that you have to stop at before you exclude so many people that this is no longer a fun AND competitive sport.

Just my 2 cents

Neil

Just Pulin' Pork
02-08-2011, 08:48 PM
I see what you are saying and I do see maybe someday there will be an "Iron Chef of BBQ" comp. With that they might use this as a criteria, but in KCBS comps I do not see this happening.

worthsmokin
02-08-2011, 08:50 PM
Good concept, but alot of the store bought rubs are similar in flavor profile. I bet we could take the rub you make and match it with someone elses.(or get very close) At the end of the day you have to be able to cook.

Tyler

HawgNationBBQ
02-08-2011, 08:56 PM
The reason I feel this way about sauce and rubs is because I feel like that is part of cooking. Making sauces and using spices is taught in every culinary school as a part of cooking.


Cant say I know many BBQers that have been to culinary school. Seems like an oxymoron (culinary school and BBQ) to me. just my $0.02

Alexa RnQ
02-08-2011, 09:14 PM
Seems like an oxymoron (culinary school and BBQ)
Don't tell Tuffy, or Shad, or... hey, we've even got a handful that are regulars on our circuit out here. :thumb:

I would have to agree that making one's own rub and sauce is tremendously satisfying. It's not for everybody, but I take great pride when ours come through for us.

I might sing a different tune when I'm standing over a hot kettle before a contest, though. http://www.divaherself.com/funny/shiner.gif

Jacked UP BBQ
02-08-2011, 09:35 PM
Cant say I know many BBQers that have been to culinary school. Seems like an oxymoron (culinary school and BBQ) to me. just my $0.02

I went Culinary school, didnt learn much about BBQ there. It does give you a nice knowledge of food and technique. We make our own stocks, brines, marinades, etc. There is no better school than the School of hard knocks.

Ken V
02-08-2011, 09:59 PM
I apologize for not answering to your post. I have tried and tried but never have come up with anything that I had confidence in or thought was better than what I use now. If I do come up with something I may change my tune....maybe I should try one of them sometime. I really have no feelings either way as to whether someone uses a commercial rub or a homemade rub.
The cooking of the meat, I believe is just as large if not larger than the rubs and sauces used. That is why I asked the question about your thoughts on smokers.

Ken

Bigmista
02-08-2011, 10:25 PM
The way I figure it, anything I buy in the store is an ingredient. If I combine it with anything else, it becomes my recipe.

When I make sauce "from scratch", I use ketchup and worcestershire sauce. I don't have a clue as to how to make either one so I use commercial brands. Is my sauce commercial or my recipe?

dannypat21
02-08-2011, 10:38 PM
I do not see a problem with using commercial sauces and rubs. We all know the hardest part off BBQ is cooking the meat to perfection. I make my own rub...it's just not as good as some that I can purchase. Competition BBQ is a sport...and to me sauce and rub is your equipment. My homemade baseball bat would have a hard time against Easton and Rawlings in the major leagues. If you can succeed with your own rubs and sauces, hell, more power to you. But if you don't cook your meat correctly, the sauce and rub don't matter anyway.

Brewer
02-08-2011, 11:37 PM
You'd have less parity in the sport and fewer people competing as a whole. Not everyone knows how to make a sauce, craft a rub, or build their own pit. Interesting idea? Sure. But it is like talking peace in the Middle East.

+1. I don't have time to master a rub or nail a sauce - I'm really not that good at it. I'm working on times, temps, prep and presentation. But that doesn't make me any less competitor. I enjoy the consistency of someone else's rub and sauce when I'm trying to dial in other variables.

smokeyw
02-09-2011, 05:49 AM
A lot of good points, I appreciate all of the input. Once again, I just wanted to know what people's feelings were on this. Thanks

NRA4Life
02-09-2011, 06:04 AM
Logistically, checking everybody's rub and sauce at a comp to ensure they were "homemade" would be impossible. Just establishing the criteria that constitutes "homemade" would be virtually impossible. Identifying when someone didn't follow the criteria would be impossible. If the criteria was that a "maximum" of 50% of your rub could be a commercial rub, how could it be verified it wasn't 99.9% commercial rub with an addition of 0.1% cayenne? How would you determine somebody didn't mix 3 commercial sauces together instead of starting out with tomato sauce as a base and adding individual ingredients to come up with a homemade sauce? What about if I hire a culinary expert to make a rub and sauce just for me...is that homemade or do I have to fabricate the recipes myself? I do make my own sauce and rub and I'll agree you have an interesting and impossible idea.

smokeyw
02-09-2011, 06:22 AM
I was not suggesting that the rules be changed. I know that it would be impossible to enforce such a rule anyway. I only wanted to know how people felt about it. I guess I am a little surprised that more people don't make their own sauce or rub.
Where I live, a lot of people are into whole hog barbecue. Most people take great pride in their sauce and are very secretive when it comes to the recipe. Recipes often get passed on for generations.

Spydermike72
02-09-2011, 06:32 AM
Why re-invent the wheel ?

TRS
02-09-2011, 06:39 AM
I too graduated from Johnson & Wales Culinary College but ditched all the fluff for good ole bbq. Its American, no frills, good cooking. With all that being said, I use commercial rubs and sauces. I took Rod Gray's class last year and he hit the nail on the head saying that there are so many good rubs and sauces on the market now and it is actually cheaper and less hassle and work, why not just use them. Its consistency and if you want a different flavor profile, just try a different rub or sauce instead of having to remix and experiment.
As mentioned, I too combine different commercial rubs and sauce to get my own taste so really its my recipe. I am just using their rubs as my raw ingredients.
JMHO.

billm
02-09-2011, 07:00 AM
kinda seems all rubs and sauces are really commercial unless you are growing and grinding your own spices as well
and burning your own wood so you are not using commercial charcoal
how far does one really want to take it?

ClayHill
02-09-2011, 07:06 AM
I was not suggesting that the rules be changed. I know that it would be impossible to enforce such a rule anyway. I only wanted to know how people felt about it. I guess I am a little surprised that more people don't make their own sauce or rub.
Where I live, a lot of people are into whole hog barbecue. Most people take great pride in their sauce and are very secretive when it comes to the recipe. Recipes often get passed on for generations.

I dont disagree or agree. I'm kind of with bigmista on this one. Its really hard to define an end to this conversation, ie, Such as the folks in your area, I'm sure most are not using vinager that they made from scratch or using red peppers that they grew in their garden, sure, some might be but the majority is not.

I weld.........and I build my own pits, I take great pride in them, but I dont expect everyone to do the same.:-P

lcbateman3
02-09-2011, 07:15 AM
I heard Johnny Trigg say one time that people have already mastered sauces and rubs, so why spend the time.

I usually doctor what ever I make. I make my own Eastern NC BBQ sauce. Sometimes I will make my own other sauce, sometimes its doctoring up commercial sauces. As for rubs, I buy pre-made rubs.

smokeyw
02-09-2011, 07:41 AM
I heard Johnny Trigg say one time that people have already mastered sauces and rubs, so why spend the time.

People have mastered sauces and rubs. Other people. People have also mastered competition barbecue cooking. Why not just hire them to cook for you? See what I am saying?

That comment will probably anger some people and that is not my intent. I am only trying to make my point. Let's not split hairs. I'm not saying that people should grow or make their own ingredients. I'm not saying that people should or shouldn't build their own smokers. I'm not even saying that people shouldn't use a commercial sauce as an ingredient in their own sauce. I'm talking about the act of blending ingredients and using them as part of the cooking process.

JayAre
02-09-2011, 07:47 AM
Isnt this why, at some contest they have a sauce category??? I personally dont care who uses what...its about how the meat is cooked/tastes as a whole, not the sauce/rubs.

Ford
02-09-2011, 07:56 AM
Why would I feel this way about smokers?

The reason I feel this way about sauce and rubs is because I feel like that is part of cooking. Making sauces and using spices is taught in every culinary school as a part of cooking.

It doesn't bother me if people don't agree with me. I'm just looking for reasons why they don't agree.
Now I never went to that fancy Culinary School but I kind of heard that they teach you all the basics. That means how to make sauce but not how to make a new sauce that you invent. Actually from what I heard creativity is kind of frowned on until you graduate and can then experiment.

And I'll chime in on the idea of using your own rubs and sauces. I did it for 6 years and had very few calls but had fun. Then I started using commercial products that were made to compliment each other and since then have done somewhat better. It makes sense to me to take an existing proven product and tweak it where needed. And for the record I use THESLABS.COM products. Even had their banner out this weekend in Winter Haven.

WhiskeyBentBBQ
02-09-2011, 08:22 AM
Why re-invent the wheel ?

Exactly, I'm not trying to win a creativity Ribbon or the don't you feel good about yourself participation certificate.

There are great rubs and sauces already available and most the successful teams are using those as a base and going from there to set their product apart at the tables.

If you subscribe to this type of thinking, maybe you should have to build your own pit along with hunt, slaughter and butcher your own animals. Those all contribute to the quality of the cooking process as much or more than rubs and sauces!

DawgPhan
02-09-2011, 08:31 AM
So this week is rocking and rolling...We got the "I need to make my own rubs and sauces to feel alive" thread, a "pork parting rule sucks" thread, and a "big money is going to ruin small contests" thread...didnt everyone get the memo that the bbq season has already started...put away the silly season threads and get with the Roll Calls.

spicewine
02-09-2011, 08:37 AM
I use my own rubs and sauces in competition.:becky::doh:

musicmanryann
02-09-2011, 08:57 AM
I use my own rubs and sauces in competition.:becky::doh:

And you build your own pits. A regular renaissance bbq man you are!:clap2:

Bourbon Barrel BBQ
02-09-2011, 09:20 AM
People have mastered sauces and rubs. Other people. People have also mastered competition barbecue cooking. Why not just hire them to cook for you? See what I am saying?

That comment will probably anger some people and that is not my intent. I am only trying to make my point. Let's not split hairs. I'm not saying that people should grow or make their own ingredients. I'm not saying that people should or shouldn't build their own smokers. I'm not even saying that people shouldn't use a commercial sauce as an ingredient in their own sauce. I'm talking about the act of blending ingredients and using them as part of the cooking process.

What about the "ingredients" that go into a sauce? Do you make the ketchup, mustard, hotsauce, Worcester sauce, or other things added to make a BBQ sauce? Is that any different than doctoring a commercial sauce? I understand the point you are trying to make. People who use commercial sauce aren't as "honorable" as those who make their own sauce. That's fine. I'm sure it does feel extra special to win using a "made from scratch" sauce or rub. Many competitors are simply looking for consistency and are not trying to re-invent the wheel. For many winning is the goal, not a warm and fuzzy feeling of doing it the hard way for the sake of doing it the hard way.

TN_BBQ
02-09-2011, 10:41 AM
Do what you feel... Whatever that is...

yup

The way I figure it, anything I buy in the store is an ingredient. If I combine it with anything else, it becomes my recipe.

When I make sauce "from scratch", I use ketchup and worcestershire sauce. I don't have a clue as to how to make either one so I use commercial brands. Is my sauce commercial or my recipe?

yup

People have mastered sauces and rubs. Other people. People have also mastered competition barbecue cooking. Why not just hire them to cook for you? See what I am saying?


Nope

Hire em if you want (some folks do). So what? That team wins, but the guy doin the cookin is the one that did the cookin and to me, I want to do the cookin more than I want to do the winning. I ain't gonna hire Myron Mixon or Johnny Trigg to cook for me and then say "I won and I'm a great BBQ chef" and when I cook BBQ, I want to be the one doing the cooking. So long as everybody starts with raw meat, they're doin the cooking (even if they use store bought stuff).

smalls65
02-10-2011, 06:47 AM
yup



yup



Nope

Hire em if you want (some folks do). So what? That team wins, but the guy doin the cookin is the one that did the cookin and to me, I want to do the cookin more than I want to do the winning. I ain't gonna hire Myron Mixon or Johnny Trigg to cook for me and then say "I won and I'm a great BBQ chef" and when I cook BBQ, I want to be the one doing the cooking. So long as everybody starts with raw meat, they're doin the cooking (even if they use store bought stuff).


WELL SAID!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :thumb: